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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: N.C.Ramakrishna (@ 171-254-150.ipt.aol.com) on: Mon Nov 16 21:35:20 EST 1998
  
  Man I dont know why any discussion on ARR and IR will go into pages and pages.
  
  Srinath:
  
  After reading your posting ( 15th Nov) I wanted to post my views on this discussion apart from what I posted before. But when I saw this thread today, I really surprised. Everthing of yesterday was in old responses). You have given a new concept to DFM'ers. BTW I am posting my opinions. I dont mean to offend anybody.
  
  Now my views on this topic..
  
  ARR is a new generation guy who looks into each and every thing differently. He is from a music family. His main advantage is his age which matches to current generation. Also he gained lot of experience working with lot of MD's including IR before becoming himself a MD. So he knows all do and donts in a Film industry. He knows what are pros and cons in each music director and took the best of each guy. He recognised that if he sounds one more IR nobody will notice. Thats why he could adapt a new style of music and could attract people.
  
  He has a perfect timing in entering TFM than anybody. Everybody wanted a change in Music from IR for whom they are listening past 20 years. Something refreshing which he gave and became hit. If he could have given same IR type of music nobody would have bothered him.
  
  The only reason he could get recognition is that he has a perfect judgement and timing.
  
  Now his poularity in Hindi Films. Again this is related to his timing. IR was a genius. He made Tamil guys to listen to Tamil songs not HIndi. In his time his counter parts in Hindi were genius. They had Burmans, LP, etc., singers like KK, Lata, Asha at their peak. If you have everything why do you need borrow from any other language? I doubt anybody who listens KK would like to hear any south singers, singing Hindi in South accent. Like people hating Udit Narayan in Tamil. IR's music matched those and there was not enough exchange between these two languages as people used to feel pride on their music.
  
  Its like if you have enough money, you dont take loan from somebody. Only if you are out of money you borrow. Samething is happening now. Hindi FM is in horrible stage. Except Udit Narayan there is nobody who can sing well. There is no more a great MD. At this time ARR is giving some music which is non Tamil. So they are accepting him and getting attracted towards him.
  
  Now about his professionalism and also about MR ( this may be a little bit degression). MR is MBA marketing guy. He knows how to market his product and he does everything best he could do to sell his product. See a Mounaragam and Dilse you can find this thing. Any professional marketing guy would try his best to sell his product. Even if the product is not great.
  
  Success and hit does not come just by doing one movie per year like MR or 5-6 movies per year like ARR ( which people name it as professionalism). In that case every movie of MR should be hit and every ARR album should be hit which is not. I feel something else apart from these is required to make something success. But this type of doing guarantess only quality of music and recording.
  
  Just making up without original beauty doesnt stay much. If you look at that beauty it may appeal instantly but it doesnt last long. If ARR remembers this he will become great. He is only successful now.
  
  I dont know whether professionalism was not there with old MD's. But what I feel is that they wanted their songs to be remembered for many years than instant hits. There are some ARR songs too that you would like to heat and hear but percentage is less.
  
  Sorry for long posting. The above posting is just my opinion and observations and nothing to hurt anybody.
  
  
• From: pazhaya panchaangam (@ inet35.us.oracle.com) on: Mon Nov 16 21:55:58 EST 1998
  
  Kudos nandu!
  
  The current genre seems to have confused 'clarity' with 'complexity'.
  
  I think the only influence of ARR that can be seen in IR's music is the use of synth instruments. (But I personally prefer to listen to his music without all those artificial stuff!).
  
  The other influence of ARR style can be seen in TFM in general. That of fast, catchy numbers. These are good when they are new, and fade away with time. Like, listen to 'Pudhu vellai mazhai' and 'Chicku buku rayile' now, and tell me which one is still appealing. Naturally the melody, right?? ARR has kind of moulded the TFM style to these fast, beatsy, catchy, what not.. style, which in effect has reduced the number of 'collectible' songs which you can listen even after 10 years from the day you first heard the song. For example, I have with me albums of 'Kaadhal desam', 'Gentleman', etc., which sounded great at that time, but lie untouched these days!!
  
  This is the influence of ARR in current day TFM, in my opinion, though I'm not sure it this kind of change in TFM is for good, or for bad!
  
  
  
  
  
• From: r.ravi (@ 220.houston-06.tx.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Nov 17 00:11:22 EST 1998
  
  IR's compositions are simpler..? Cant help laughing at that. IR is probahbly the only person in Indian music industry who writes very sophisticated and complex notes for his music. This is a fact endorsed by all musicians right from "Abaswaran" Ramji.....to every musician who want to perform the same again(studio or Stage).Personally i have studied his music right from annakili and found that he involuntarily composed those striking notations rather than to make it sound complex.Right frrm the rythm patterns to the acompaniment of the violins to the melancholy of flute and the fill-ins of the guitar.WOW !! it could be a separate topic.By the way i refered to Ramji ..etc Coz they are the ones who face the difficulty of reproducing the songs in stage.BTW. i have a incident ot quote, related to me by a friend of mine who knows ilayaraja.A particular music director in Bombay.. i am not sure if its Kalyanji Anandji or somebody else, was so blown over by the song in Nizhalgal.."Poongathavae Thaazh thira vaay.." that they tried to reproduce the same with disastorous results and had a boquet sent from Bombay to Raja complementing him.Once again people are misled by the way songs are recorded by the MD's today.With a high-tech equipment every John, Tom, Hari and Ramesh can do that.Hence to reiterate the Point, COMPOSING MUSIC AND RECORDING THE COMPOSED MUSIC ARE TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT DOMAINS.
  
  
• From: Pradeep Ananth (@ slip129-37-151-93.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Tue Nov 17 00:57:05 EST 1998
  
  Nandhu:
  I join you in your celebration of IR's tunes which have sent me into raptures of joy.By stating that ARR is a sound engineer, although ur intention was to depict him as an inferior music director, by calling him an "engineer" it is now obvious that ARR is indeed a professional. To put it in other words this vividly portrays how ARR has changed music from a very subjective abstract thing(?)( Is that the right term? I can't call music a thing,but I am lost for words.)to engineering sounds to produce something(?) that pleases your ears. Since you are engineering sounds u are in great control of it and that means you are able to bring in a consistency in the quality. On the other hand IR was a genius for who the notes just flowed from his brain even if he didn't want them to!!!
  Coming to Pazhaya panchangam...
  u were right in pointing out the lack of longevity in ARR's songs. But then this is the age of "instant" pleasure. The age when India plays 40 one dayers a year(actually the year isn't over yet)Its a fact that life's pace has become too hectic. ARR's music fits this need perfectly. I mean why do u want to have collectibles? Anyway there is going to be a better one coming along tomorrow from ARR. Why bother if you dont want to listen to Gentleman or Kadhal Desam any more? Theyhave played their part. When u listened to Chikku ukku raile the first time u feel lilke saying "WOW, that song really rouses me. Its so different and catchy". U keep listening to it until u get bored of it. U have derived enough pleasure from it by then. So ARR thinks, now its time to move ahead and comes up with "Humma Humma" and that catches on...U go thru the cycle once again, so u still get ur pleasure. Life goes on...
  What is ARR doesn't produce collectibles. I still want to buy his CDs the very day they come out! Just because IR produced collectibles ARR doesn't need to and producing collectibles need not necessarily be the norm to be a good music director. Times change and so does the world...As long as he can give u enough pleasure!
  Guys, IMO its time we all come to terms with reality and have a more "happy-go-lucky" attitude to life rather than trying to be cynical about things u really shoudn't be.
  cheers
  
  
• From: UV (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Nov 17 02:00:54 EST 1998
  
  pradeep,
  I'm sorry to say this ....i found ur comparison of IR and ARR analogous to Dos and UNIX (were u mislead by the term "layered"??????) childish.
  
  How can one say IR's strength is simplicity in tunes???? man, have u listened his BGM pieces keenly or have u listened to GURU (esp aruna kiraNa) or any songs from nenjathai kiLLAdhE (the interludes of uRavenum and paruvamE:Raja has given a mini symphony in those numbers) and U coolly say his strength is simplicity in tunes!!!!!!
  
  Again u seem to have misguided by the term "engineer" FYI , anybody who is good at what he's doing can be called a professional.ARR is indeed a professional. What i can't agree is ur statement saying IR is NOT a professional.
  
  He wasn't choosy bcos he didn't want to rely on the banner or director for the success of his numbers,whereas ARR did/does (what happened to the songs of vandicholai, ivargaL innAttu mannargaL,pavithra and asokan and all low budget movies of his??????)
  
  Can u call him a professional????? IMO, a true professional would rely only on his talent and is NOT dependent on any others to contribute to his success (others' work may 'compliment' his).
  
  If he were a composer ("professional"!!!!) why wud he rely on Dr.alban and likes?????
  may be, he's a professional of Deva kinds!!!(sorry if i have hurt ur feelings)
  
  As somebody said earlier , if a guy cud write notes for all the musicians without even humming the tune, How can one claim that he isn't professional???
  
  >>IR never felt a necessity to keep himself abreast to the technological changes in music<<
  
  FYI, first computerised music was introduced by raja in vikram.After quite sometime ,he did some similar stuff in punnagai mannan (ARR played the keyboard for IR in those days )and it was IR who brought the first song in Stereo phonic sound system.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss08.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Tue Nov 17 10:14:44 EST 1998
  
  N.C.Ramakrishna:
  I sincerely think Pradeep was getting a little carried away. When it comes to discussing IR and ARR in the DF, it doesn't hurt to be a little cautious. This, I say from prior experience. I don't really see anything wrong in asking a person to clarify his comments if they appear to have the potential to start off another IR vs ARR fight. The natural reaction would have been to cut down Pradeep's argument, since it is so nebulous and easily lends itself to criticism. I actually felt good that I took the rational way out of the situation. I gave him the benefit of doubt and did not launch into a heated debate. Is that so very wrong ?
  
  

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