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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: SL (@ 208.49.174.40) on: Thu Sep 28 19:59:51 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya, the main point is that nobody (among the popular MDs) apart from ARR has shown any fresh approach to music. Even KVM did not in the past, but his melodies were his own and every movie of his had atleast one stunner, atleast one song that you wouldn't like to forget for the rest of your life.
  
  RajaG's peeve could be based on the fact that with 50-60 years of film music history behind us, you do not require special talents to come out with the stuff others (MDs other than ARR) churn out. Deva's/SAR's original numbers merely take the beaten path. Any music savvy listener with a good exposure to Indian Film Music can easily emulate SAR and Deva, though I do believe that Deva is capable of better work.
  
  Sivaji (inspite of his rotten movies) and MGR starrers had lovely songs between '71 and '76.
  Some Sivaji starrers with great songs between 71 & 76,
  Sivantha MaNN, thangaikkaaga, Sorgam, Yenga oor raaja, Sumathi Yen Sundari , Raaja, Vietnam Veedu, Gauravam , Dr. Siva and I am sure, a lot more.
  
  Some MGR starrers - NaaLai namathE, Ulagam Sutrum Vaaliban, Netru Indu NaaLai, Sabash Maappillai, Meenava naNban, neethikku thalai vaNangu , Idayakkani, uzhaikkum karangaL etc
  
  The perceived increase in HFM popularity was not owing to any dip in standards in TFM but mainly due to the Rajesh Khanna phenomenon coupled with the emergence of Kishore Kumar / RDB as the singing/composing superstars. There was a lot more youthful touch in Hindi films in that period.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 20:09:33 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya,
  Iam not saying that TFM is regressing because of bad pronunciation and copied songs, but merely pointing out 2 objective factors that explain the lull in the present state of music.
  
  of course if u take examples like lovenna love mannan stove where pronunciation is flawless but lyrics are trashy then i can give examples from the present too. what about 'oranjaaram' from kaakai chiraginile? such a nice tune spoilt by lyrics yet rendered flawlessly by SPB. also the practice of actors giving CDs to MDs and theatening them to copy etc. were they to such an extent in the 70s?
  
  The bottomline is I feel that there might be more 'flavors' that have gone wrong now than in the past. pronunciation and lack of originality are the easily observable ones.
  
  I also endorse the first 2 points of SLs last post. nothing fresh in the last 3 or 4 years. bharadwaj and KR have only tried to follow the already charted paths. it might be a bit greedy on my part to expect an IR or ARR to emerge every 5 years but nevertheless the fact remains that music has become a bit stale.
  
  (have u noticed that in recent interviews more questions towards ARR has been ' unga music repetetive irukkara maathiri feeling irukke?" or
  "neenga hindila potta tunesye thamizhla podareengale etc.?" )
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 20:13:23 EDT 2000
  
  SL, with the exception of "Sivandha Mann" and "Netru Indru Naalai" the rest were lucky to have one great song. Can you name another decent song from "Dr. Siva" besides the overplayed, "Malarae Kurinji malarae"? Where is "En Magan", "Neerum Neruppum", "Pattikkaattu Ponnayyaa", "Avanthaan Manithan", "Manidharil Manikkam" from your list? "Uzhaikkum Karangal", "Engal Thanga Raja" were some of the movies I was thinking of when I wrote the previous post. This was definitely MSV's down time. We can take this behind the scene too to discuss each song. I stand by what I said earlier.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.201) on: Thu Sep 28 20:27:40 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: Ulagam sutrum vaaliban? allaa paattum sooper baa!
  
  82 plus/minus vs. 99 plus/minus list inga pOdalaam. Conclusion vENumnaa oru expert panel kodukkattum. indha maadhiri oru idea va idhukku munnaadiyE solli vaangi kattindavan thaanEy naan!:-)
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 20:30:35 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG, marupadiyum panela?;))
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 20:35:43 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay,
  
  I disagree that the newcomers are only following the charted paths. I have not heard anything similar to "Unnodo Vaazhaatha" or "Saththam Illatha" from "Amarkkalam" by Bharatwaj. Nor have I heard the exact kind of interludes by KR in "Konjum Manjal Pookkal" anywhere before (the violin arrangement in it is awesome). I haven't heard the perfect balance of music and tune like I have in "Poovellaam Kaettuppaar" in years. The subdued reggae beats set to a melodious duet, "Chudithaar anindhu" beats any reggae attempts by ARR or IR out of the water. And the number of musical genres that YSR covers in it you will have to go all the way back to "Kudiyirundha Kovil" to get that many in one movie. "Kandukondaen Kandukondaen" is a Jazz extravaganza rewarded to a Thamizh song. If these are not ground breaking songs then what is? No amount of mundane crap surrounding these songs is going to diminish their musical freshness or importance to me.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 20:42:59 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG,
  "Siriththu Vaazhavaendum" is a trite, preachy song. "Lilli malarukku" is another bullet in Vaali's oattai vaali. "Banjaayeee Kaadhal kavidhaigal", if you can stand TMS screaming Banjaayee, then I guess this is a good song. I don't think it is.
  
  "Nilavu oru pennaagi", "Thangath Thoniyilae" and "Aval oru navarasa" are good songs I admit. "Ulagam" is another trite song, but Srikanth has brought up its technical virtues many times so a sideways thumb on that. See what happens when we decipher everything up close?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 21:07:46 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya,
  
  The examples that u have given are perhaps far and few in between. barring a few exceptions perhaps te newcomers have not established themselves. If they would have they wouldnt be sitting idle at home hoping for chances. even if they showed flashes of promise they have failed to sustain that. KR and YSR are guilty of giving an eual number of bad songs. i dont remember the movie names but the sathyaraj-kushbu starrer with music by YSR was a washout.
  
  Only jalras like Deva who openly says that he follows whatever trend that exists are composing majority of films now. i have never seen a phase in the last 20 years or so where MDs have openly admitted to copying and admitting that thhey have come just to earn their bread, or they are following the trend persisting etc and still remaining in the business.
  
  
  When at any stage in the years from 1971-1994 has the most prolific MD been as bad as Deva, if not in songs atleast work-ethics wise? this itself is a proff of the pathetic state of affairs the TFM is in.
  
  A talented VS or maragathamani dont get chances in TFM whereas mediocre SAR or Deva get film after film. how do u explain this?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 21:12:26 EDT 2000
  
  "No amount of mundane crap surrounding these songs is going to diminish their musical freshness or importance to me."
  
  u cannot just dismiss the amount of trash being served up there by quoting a few examples. a few good songs like these have been there in any time period. agreed that the musical greatness of these songs will not be diminished, but what of the overall TFM scene ?
  
  TFM as overall has had its greatness diminished by the majority of mundane works out there.
  
  worse, we are having tunes like chappa chappa being reused in tamil.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 21:16:19 EDT 2000
  
  As I have not typed this much in a day for the last few months Iam running low on stamina right now;)) will be back after adding some fuel;))
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.202) on: Thu Sep 28 21:22:35 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: gnyaabaga maradhi vandhuduththu nEkku - pachchaikkiLi muththuchcharam and azhagiya thamizh magaL ivaL enna padam?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 21:22:50 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay,
  TFM as overall has had its greatness diminished by the majority of mundane works out there
  
  I disagree. The number of bad songs is proportionate to the the number of bad, failed movies. They don't thrive and they don't corrupt the overall goodness of the industry. The lower half should not be the measuring stick.
  
  Remember in the early 80s, in TF there used to be a director named M.A. Kaja. He did vulgar, cheap movies on a budget and scaled a quick 50 movies in a year or two. Is he the name that comes to mind when we think of early 80s movies? No. He is a forgotten aberration. So will be the imitators once their time runs out.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.202) on: Thu Sep 28 21:27:55 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: MA Kaja yaaru? naa kappal kadaththum kaadhal raaNigaL nu oru Jothilaksmi's histrionic masterpiece oNNu paarththirukkEn. adhukku music Kaja dhayavO?:-) aah marakka mudiyaadha those adolescent days!
  
  
• From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Thu Sep 28 21:53:11 EDT 2000
  
  sir, tea,coffee, muruggEi...sooda tea coffee muruggeei..
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.226.15) on: Thu Sep 28 22:17:44 EDT 2000
  
  G, 'Pachchai kiLi' is in USV. 'azhagiya..' is in Rickshawkaaran.
  Udhaya, the reasons you have quoted for disliking those songs in USV are other than musical creativity :)). 'Lilly malarukku' has super beats and a classy tune and so does 'Ulagam....' and all this for a typical TFM duet situation. 'Banzayee..' has very good congo beats and rhythm structure and a very novel melody line. Seldom do I not replay this song just to listen to the prelude. 'Pachchai KiLi...' starts with an explosive prelude and the way the melody and the interludes progress maintaining the tempo and the impact is something MDs of today can learn. By far, the crap that is generated today outnumber the very few good ones like 'Kandukonden....'
  'Manitharil MaaNikkam..'- the only song I know is 'I will sing for you' a very innovative Karaharapriya pop/fusion set to raggae beats for the most part. I have not heard other songs in this movie. 'avanthaan manithan' - all songs are good esp. 'anbu nadamaadum kalaikkoodamE'. You cannot forget 'aatuviththal yaaroruvar..','manithan ninaippathuNdu'. I have not heard songs from 'Pattikaattu ponnayya' but you see i have also left out the famous 'Ponnoonjal', 'Bharatha vilas', 'Deiva magan' , 'Gnaana oLi'(remember 'maNamEdai...') and ofcourse 'Enga Mama':))) Please note: I am dissing the present day songs mainly in terms of musical creativity ,overall impact and lack of freshness.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 23:12:48 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya
  "The number of bad songs is proportionate to the the number of bad, failed movies"
  
  Iam back;)) well the reason why we dont remember bad movies or bad songs is because they dont impact us that much or we listen to them once and dont bother to even give them a second hearing.
  
  But I dont understand how u keep saying that they dont bring down the overall greatness of a music industry? Do u mean to say u can live with 50 crappy songs from Deva, Sirpti etc. if some other MD gives 3 good songs in the same year?
  
  Well, I cannot live with that. I think there is a basic difference there as to how we view things here. well, no one is going to talk about Deva's copied songs 10 years from now but the fact is that those songs have diminshed atleast temporarily the standard of TFM. Some other talented MD somewhere waiting for his chances has been deprived because most of these cheapshot artistes get all the chances. Isnt that a loss to TFM?
  
  

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