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Is TFM in a vicious cycle of degeneration?

Topic started by rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on Tue Sep 26 15:43:14 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have checked the archives and for some reason a topic with a similar heading is gone!
So here's is some food for thought.

1. Actors like Ajith, Vijay, etc commanding MDs to copy from "English CDs" and set them to Indian lyrics.
2. MDs like Deva, Sirpi copying left, right and center, in situations excluding item 1 above.
3. Bad pronunciation of singers.
4. MDs like SAR repeating the same tune over and over and over......you get the point (and many times in the same film)
5. ARR not putting any effort in re-recording at all- merely playing the songs in the movie with slower/faster versions.
6. ARR, Srikanth (Deva's son), etc blatantly indulging in lip-synch activities. Other lesser known artists, engaged in karaoke singing. While this does not directly affect TFM it speaks for the lack of confidence in the talents of the artists.
7. Many occurences of really stupid lyrics - though most of them may be blamed on the director/producers adamant insistence or same boring situations.
8. Absence of thespians who could inspire Kannadasan, TMS, SPB, PS etc to give their best.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Sep 28 18:24:16 EDT 2000
  
  U:please read my first posting on this issue,
  ...things will settle down
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 18:24:28 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya,
  what u have done is actually prove that there was a lull before in TFM(71-76), but u have not refuted nor supported strongly the viewpoint that there is a lull NOW, which is the whole point of discussion. 71-76 might or might not have been worse but the question is, is it bad enough now?
  
  Are we going thru a phase similiar to what u claim existed between 71-76?
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Thu Sep 28 18:24:52 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: I love your optimism! (no sarcasm here)
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 18:33:36 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay,
  No, it is not that bad now and when it gets that bad and stays that bad someone else will take the helm just like MSV, IR, ARR did in the past.
  
  Any period that puts out Sangamam, Poovellaam Kettuppaar, Kaakkai Chiraginilae, Amarkalam, TIME, Kandukondaen Kandukondaen, Parthen Rasithen,etc is not in a lull.
  
  "Thenali" boasts several new lyricists. Some major labels are giving new comers Mani's next movie and up and comers like YSR chances that had eluded them before. We are at the advent of an interesting phase in music.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 18:58:36 EDT 2000
  
  "Any period that puts out Sangamam, Poovellaam Kettuppaar, Kaakkai Chiraginilae, Amarkalam, TIME, Kandukondaen Kandukondaen, Parthen Rasithen,etc is not in a lull.
  "
  
  If we start analyzing these albums one by one things might get subjective. I feel that these albums that u have listed here that have come over a period of 2 years(when around 100+ films are released) contain perhaps 1 or 2 songs at the most in each of them that are worth mentioning, IMO.
  
  also there are 3 things that i feel are definitely worse as compared to the 70s lull.
  
  1. number of copycats and extent of copying.
  people have left out SAR who recycles his own tunes. other than deva we also have sirpi, deva and even ARR is getting 'inspired' more these days.
  
  2. pronunciation - OK, u accepted it.
  
  3. absence of singers of the calibre of SPB,KJY in the scene. newcomers sprouting in every other album. should i be happy that so many youngsters are coming into the field or should i feel sad that many of them disappear at the same speed as they come and many are one-hit wonders?
  
  look at the no. of singers ARR has introduced. how many of them are singing today? how many of them are being used by ARR himself?
  
  Anupama, Caroline, Febi Mani, suresh peters etc. etc. the list goes on and on.
  
  
  also the increase in mogam of introducing singers from the north like sonu nigam, udit narayan instead of using talent available here. as a result we are forced to experience torture in the form of 'aiyo pathikichu' and forgetting talent like Jayachandran who still retains his voice and has flawless diction.
  
  But I share your optimism in the future of TFM. i hope that we dont even need another ARR and that the present ARR after finishing his international commitments would come back and compensate us with some inspiring melodies.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Sep 28 19:26:00 EDT 2000
  
  vijay
  
  Why don’t you see the other side?
  Hariharan, Srinivas, Sujatha, Shanker Mahadevan and many more, We have seen more singers in the past 10 years than anytime before.
  
  fyi: You have given a list of singers, and you say they are singing now , this is wrong,
  #1, the quality : Anupama did well in chandraleka, Caroline did well in thee thee.
  You cannot say no to this.
  #2:They are different kinds of singers, they are still singing, you are not hearing.
  
  
  As far as I understand, there is no lull in Tamil music. How many of us really hear VS, Bharadwaj etc
  We are only bothered about 2 people ARR and IR.
  How many IR fans really hear ARR?
  How many ARR fans really hear IR scores,?
  
  --- When the album comes out -- each side close their ears tightly and fails to see good things in an album. In fact there is a situation here where people see movies for the sake of MDs.
  
  There is a lull among the so-called fans, not music; there is plenty of music around,
  
  WE JUST NEED TO HEAR more without any prejudice
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 19:30:39 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay,
  The basic difference in our views is number! If in the early 70s they had made 500 movies a year then you would have had hundreds of bad songs then.
  
  Why are you focussing on fringe players like Febi and Suresh Peters? Shankar Mahadevan and Srinivas are quite busy these days. One song each in a 100-movie year is not bad for them. You don't think finding two good singers in a year is good enough?
  
  To me, what the good songs add to the stature of music has a lot more impact than what the bad songs do to music. Bad songs are aberrations, they are not going to leave an indelible mark on music as a whole. They will be forgotten fast.
  
  Why are you guys unwilling to accept that trashy, dull, forgettable songs have existed all along? Do you honestly believe that MSV and IR had 100% good songs in every one of their movies? If you make a list of all the songs released in your favorite musical year in TFM to this year, you will be surprised at how many bad songs were released in the year of your choice. Pick a year and I will go through each and every song that came out that year with you. By consensus we shall come up with a list of the bad, forgettable songs from that year.
  
  Then we shall compare the proportion of good:bad songs from that year to this year. That will be the ultimate test. Are you game?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.201) on: Thu Sep 28 19:32:11 EDT 2000
  
  fan: even though you may have a point, I don't think you can generalise on the listening habits of the people who have postd in this thread - notably vijay. Some of us have heard SAR, Sirpi, Deva, Adityan, etc and ONLY THEN came to this unpleasant conclusion. nalla music anyaayamaa pink cassette la vandhuduththEy ngaradhukkaaga dhraabaiyaana music a Cd la vaangaNumaa?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.201) on: Thu Sep 28 19:38:10 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya: Are you sure? If I choose 1982 vs. 1999, I will be comparing Ilayaraja's prime with Deva's prime - excluding copies and gaanaas. I am really curious to go through the test.
  
  Could we all contribute to this exercise? Calling all genuine TFM fans!
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 131.230.25.38) on: Thu Sep 28 19:46:38 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay :
  
  absence of singers of the calibre of SPB,KJY in the scene.
  
  It took SPB, KJY quite some time to be in the place where they are today. Srinivas, HH, Shankar Mahadevan are relatively new.. give them a few years, and comment... It is unfair to compare much-experienced SPB/KJY with a relatively new Shankar Mahadevan or Srinivas.
  
  Udaya : loved your last paragraph
  To expect prefection as a necessary next step in progress is shying away from history and reality. With every progressive step there are several missteps. With every new trendsetter come a hoard of cheap imitators. That fact hasn't changed nor will it ever change. The only uniqueness about our time is in the degree of missteps and the number of imitators. .... ...
  
  very well written!!!
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 19:46:49 EDT 2000
  
  Boot it up, buddy. 82 vs 99. The only concern is number of bad songs. And we should keep in mind the proportion of movies that came out in both years. Of course if we all contribute it won't achieve the purpose. Athi and SPM will say everything by IR from 82 was great and ARR fans will say everything from Kadhalar Dhinam was great. A neutral mind should not agree to both those stands. Why don't we take this exercise behind the scenes and post the final analysis here?
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 19:49:06 EDT 2000
  
  Udhaya,
  OK, this might sound a bit qualitative, but my argument is the best of today doesnt offset the worst as much as it did in the 80s. now i dont think any exercise can prove this because it is a little bit subjective.
  
  The point being made is not that trashy songs didnt exist before. But the trend that is currently being followed and the work ethics of MDs are not healthy and that is a bd sign.
  
  The best MD is giving his re-recording work to some arbit guys even though he does only 2 films /year. the most prolific composer is also the most prolific copier. and the others desperate not to lose out are following in these guys footsteps.
  
  I have named all without acually naming them. it should be clear to u now.
  
  the only aspects that are not subjective are bad pronunciation and copied songs. and these were definitely lesser between 1982-89 than they are between 1994-2000 or whatever.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Thu Sep 28 19:57:56 EDT 2000
  
  OK, now on to srikanth;))
  
  "Why don’t you see the other side?
  Hariharan, Srinivas, Sujatha, Shanker Mahadevan and many more, We have seen more singers in the past 10 years than anytime before.
  "
  
  Srikanth, remember we have had this argument before? we have seen so many singers. SO?
  how many of them are here to stay? many of them have disappeared already, atleast from the TFM scene. except for the newtfmpage crowd how many people on an average u think will even remember these names? No offense meant to any of these artistes. they all might be talented, but whats the use? have they be given enough chances and their talents fully exploited? NO!!!
  
  
  And Chandy, I agree though iam not a big fan of srinivas or shankar they migh be here to saty , we dont know. but we are talking about the present here and Iam not doing any kind of doomsaying that we wont have any good singers for the next 10 years or something like that.
  
  whereas names like SPB,KJY,SJ are familiar to over 3 generations of listeners.
  
  "As far as I understand, there is no lull in Tamil music. How many of us really hear VS, Bharadwaj etc
  We are only bothered about 2 people ARR and IR.
  How many IR fans really hear ARR?
  How many ARR fans really hear IR scores,?
  "
  
  Many of us do Srikanth. I listened to Paarthen rasithen and was disappointed for the most part of it. I was disappointed by Bharathy also irrespective of what the reviews also.
  
  "There is a lull among the so-called fans"
  
  actually this might be true;)) Perhaps there is a lull in the tastes of the audience out there;))
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.115) on: Thu Sep 28 19:59:24 EDT 2000
  
  the only aspects that are not subjective are bad pronunciation and copied songs. and these were definitely lesser between 1982-89 than they are between 1994-2000 or whatever.
  
  So you are contending that TFM is regressing because of bad pronunciation and copied songs? I contend that bad pronunciation and copied songs have not become the norm. They are more prevalent, yes. But I just shove these songs in the same bin I shove, "Lovennaa lovvu manennai stovvu". Great pronunciation there, nevertheless a horrible song. So, the conclusion is there are different flavors of bad songs today than yesterday. There have always been bad songs! So, TFM is in no new danger than it was in the 80s. Every twenty years or so a paradigm shift occurs in TFM. We may be ripe for the next one soon, but not yet.
  
  
  
  

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