Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

What's common in IR, ARR Songs

Topic started by G. Kuppusamy (@ 156.153.255.250) on Wed Nov 15 00:03:37 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Many threads deal with the differences in IR and ARR songs. Those include differences in composing-style, tune, orchesration, rythm, chords, melody, catchy beats, bgm etc etc. Is there anything common in their music (strictly with respect to cine music, not in their personalities, not even private albums)?

Most of us agree that its the TFM, nowadays, gives better music(in all form) than MDs from other Indian Films. This prompted me to think in this area. Afterall Rahmaan is a successor of Illayaraja. If we can think about some common things in IR and his predecessor MSVs then why cannot about IR and ARR.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: ali ahmed ansari (@ 203.199.228.84) on: Thu Nov 16 12:29:09 EST 2000
  
  IR played violin or some other instrument to MSV for a brief period...and Dilip played key board to IR.Both have uplifted their sisters and brothers financially.Both have soft corners for Mumbai singers especially Asha Bonsle..Both have copied MSV'S old tunes...Both have given their share of songs where loud music swallows the lyrical clarity...Last but not the least they hate each other and refuse to acknowledge the existanceof the other..ahmed ansari
  
  
• From: a.a.a (@ 203.199.228.84) on: Thu Nov 16 12:33:32 EST 2000
  
  P.S...Oh sorry the thread is what is common in their song....No Answer....a.a.a.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Thu Nov 16 12:37:53 EST 2000
  
  Doubter,
  
  Unconsciously,I would think ARR fans believe ARR copies less and IR fans believe IR copies less.As Kiru pointed out I shouldn't have brought up this negative statement.Let's not make it more negative by delving abt it and start bashing and finally end up trashing.
  
  We(I and some of the ARR fans here)take up a IR song and try to see it from the point of view of whether he has copied or not only when IR fans accuse ARR of copying.And again we don't do it always.We don't start it any time if you notice the threads. We just listen to good music as long as it is not a blatant lift.
  
  We believe in the attitude and sincerity of both ARR and IR.I'm sure they won't lower their standards.
  
  Kiru,
  
  You classify some of ARR's way of doing things when he deviates from the norm as "POP".Is the definition of "POP" something like deviating from the norm?I think we should classify this b'cos some people may misintepret "POP" to be a hippie kind of music.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 16 12:38:22 EST 2000
  
  talking of bass,
  Ir's bass is often constructed bass, it is based on his chord progression does not go out of it.
  more like a beat pattern. It is often played using a bass guitar only, keyboards based are rare, however "Anjali" has big chunk of keyboard bass scores.
  
  Arr uses fretless (thanks to keith peters), his score slides more and steps out of chords and plays even a melody. At times uses 2 bass sounds. He uses real fretless and Keyboard bass together. Records bass very well.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 16 12:43:35 EST 2000
  
  I still dont understand what Kiru means by "pop"
  Kiru you need to give a clear view of what is POP, if you say popular music,
  for me even "vatapi" is a Popular songs in carnatic music circles.
  
  Guys,
  I wish we stay postive here,
  imho:the degree of copying etc was unwanted.
  infact the entire statement was made with a "smiled" remark by trend,
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Nov 16 14:04:22 EST 2000
  
  hey ..hold on. Did I say POP anywhere ? NO. It was ARR who said he does POP and World Music when asked about whether he will do Symphony (he answered No).
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Nov 16 14:08:43 EST 2000
  
  BTW, thanks for the info on bass. I will watchout for them. Is IR's bass like 'basso continous' as in Baroque music ?
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Nov 16 14:12:20 EST 2000
  
  fan, I think it is a general rule to keep the bass rooted to the chord. There might be occasions where you might play not the root note, but maybe another note of the chord and move to the closest note in the next chord. This will give you an effect of "chorus" (not as in voice chorus, but chorus as to intensify melody)...By stepping out you mean filling-in. For example you cannot play a C major chord and play F# note. But try playing C..E..F F# G bass notes and play the C Major chord, it would sound ok, although F# was used as a transition note.
  There are some excellent bass guitar in songs like "idhu oru nila kaalam" "poonthalir aada"...and there are wonderful techniques used there. Beatles has nice bass (has beautiful melodic lines) in it. WHO has excellent bass...like them there are so many. ARR just makes the bass prominent and smooth, and there is nothing different in the technique.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Nov 16 14:17:01 EST 2000
  
  Pardon me....but theres something I feel about IRs music and ARRs that I wanted to say (although I dont want a fight because u might misinterpret this)
  IRs music...goes like 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1...
  ARRs music goes like 1 3 5 9 6 8 2 6 2 7 1 3 5...
  I can understand the first pattern and I can make a meaning out of it, but the second pattern (although it is radically different)...iam yet to find out.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Nov 16 14:19:45 EST 2000
  
  Maybe ardent music fans or savvy people have noted all the aspects of IR music. I am 'discovering' only after I bought a good stereo system and headphones. Bass and drum playing is never clear on AM radio. Even they seem to be recorded low or not properly miked. For eg. the kick drum lacks the kick. I cant differentiate the congas from the bongos, even though I suspect they both have been used. Only after rjay gave me some MIDI files I knew what was going on better.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Nov 16 14:24:26 EST 2000
  
  please listen to this
  http://members.tripod.com/kishmu/MIDI/KonjiKonji.mid
  and listen to the interludes carefully..its mind-blowing. It was an experience for me....
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 16 14:34:50 EST 2000
  
  swamiji:
  ARR just makes the bass prominent and smooth, and there is nothing different in the technique....
  
  your view on music is totally differnt from mine,
  i see new things, punching root note for bass is boring for me. hey! bass is a musical instrument we can explore more. Not a piece of wood to just punch chords. I look for unconventional stuff, why need IR or arr when "kismu" can think a root bass note.
  
  It is proved fact, bass playing styles have changed a lot after arr came in.
  
  btw: why dont you start thinking postive.
  dont start your ya da yda's on IR's score with ARR, it is really boring.
  
  
• From: FAN (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 16 14:35:48 EST 2000
  
  also swami...your 12345 theroy on IR's music, makes is look like an alogorithm.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Nov 16 14:38:24 EST 2000
  
  hmm..15 tracks. I will listen to this on my home PC as well, which has better Soundfonts. Is NewAgePad something like 'crash cymbals' ? If you guys have those fancy synth modules or whatever why cant you guys put up the mp3 of these midis ? This way novices like me can enjoy the mp3 and still use the midi to learn instrument by instrument in the orchestration.
  (BTW, I am seeing all Tamil MDs moving to a full synth based production. Atleast the string section is gone in place of the synth in VidyAsAgar's latest movie).
  
  
• From: fan of fan (@ 198.133.22.67) on: Thu Nov 16 14:40:15 EST 2000
  
  fan:
  Lots of light musicians perform the same kind of bass improvisations in IR's songs as ARR does in his own songs. When they are too lazy to pick out the (often complex) chords in IR's songs, they play by ear and end up playing every note in the scale - just like ARR does :-) Swamiji made an excellent point about playing notes "outside" the chord.
  
  
• From: fan of fan (@ 198.133.22.70) on: Thu Nov 16 14:44:54 EST 2000
  
  Swamiji:
  I totally agree with your "algorithm" ! That's what made me listen to "Bhoopalam Isaikkum" 7 times in succession couple of nights ago ! It gives a complete feeling. Starting from appetizer & finishing with a dessert.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Nov 16 14:45:34 EST 2000
  
  fan dont take that personally...it was just an observation (although everyone knows that Iam kishmu ;) ). I dont want to explain more on the numbers coz I believe everything in nature (not just beauty) has a structure to it. You can say that we make algorithms out of things we cannot understand....but that in no way becomes predictable...anyways forget that.
  By the way, I like thinking positive, but I dont accept things just becoz it is widely accepted.
  ok fan, a simple experiment. Just try playing arbit bass melodies to different chords...u wont make any sense out of it. If you "jump" whats natural, u would only shock people, not surprise them.....hehehe
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 16 14:48:24 EST 2000
  
  swamiji and "my fan"
  
  when someone say arr does good base, i dont know why people responed ir also does good bass.
  did i say anyone say no to it anywhere,
  
  arr's base are different from IR
  thats all. which is better, which follows rule (is film music 100% rule based!)
  etc is very subjective,
  
  once again we are slipping out of topic and heading for ir /arr , thanks to swamji.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu Nov 16 14:52:19 EST 2000
  
  Fan once again...understand what "COMPOSITION" means...
  Assume we have "kalyaana saapadu"....
  Why dont certain things change?????? like for example, we can have "payasam" in the middle...and rice in one corner. A little bit of kuzhambhu and a big blob of pachidi in the centre....Why dont u try this experiment and tell me if you like the food???
  Thats what makes a good "COMPOSTION" different from the rest.
  Once again folks...learn technique from ARR, but MUSIC from IR! He is truly a genius...
  
  
• From: fan of fan (@ 198.133.22.69) on: Thu Nov 16 14:53:27 EST 2000
  
  Swamiji:
  I totally agree with your "algorithm" ! That's what made me listen to "Bhoopalam Isaikkum" 7 times in succession couple of nights ago ! It gives a complete feeling. Starting from appetizer & finishing with a dessert.
  
  
• From: fan of fan (really !) (@ 198.133.22.69) on: Thu Nov 16 14:54:45 EST 2000
  
  fan:
  You didn't say, "bad", you just said "boring". And in my dictionary, "boring" music is "bad" music :-))
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Nov 16 14:57:07 EST 2000
  
  swamji, why dont you try a song, without following you 1234 or the root chord rule
  and try to
  1 make people talk good about it.
  2. make it a big hit.
  
  it is not easy!...
  
  These root "bass" and the chord rules are there in any theory book you take.
  Basically thinking different is the key!...i belive in this, it is good or bad is very subjective. I am bored with the rules if you play a smooth jazz the progression should be something like this...
  fmaj7 | bflat maj7 |gmin7 |C7th...
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments