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Review Of Old Songs

Topic started by SL (@ 208.49.174.119) on Mon Oct 2 18:43:44 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Let this thread serve as a platform for reviewing old songs that have not been elaborated upon except while discussing the creativity of its creators. Please use this thread to review old songs, album by album.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: karthi (@ 63.24.167.45) on: Thu Oct 19 23:13:20 EDT 2000
  
  GR, romba correct-aa sonneenga!!!
  
  I reflected on those lines again and was awestruck by the tune...thanks GR, here we go again...
  
  The first line I think helps describe the scene(Odam pon Odam idhu unnOdum ennOdum Odum) for which the she replies - thaaLamaattaamal -,
  
  "indha Odaththa pathi sollittiyE perisaa un kooda Oduminnu, en vaazhkkaiyE unnOdadhaan Odap pOgudhu adha marandhuttiyaa" (Odattum Odamenna ini en vaazhvu unnOdu Odum) - adharku avan
  
  "che che enna appadi sollittE, en sandhOshath-thukku virundhum, en sOgaththukku marundhum un kannulayE theriyudhE naa adhai marappEnaa" (virundhum marundhum un kaNNallavaa) - endru solla udanE aval - this time she chides him with
  
  "adhukkaaga paarthukkittE irukkaNumaa, naa ponnu illaiyaa, koochamaa irukkaadhaa enakku? (irundhum maraiththEn naan peNN allavaa) endru mugathai maraiththavudan,
  
  avan chella adhattaludan "enna vetkam, naaLaikku enakku manaivi aagap pOgirava nee, theriyuma" endru solla (naaLai en vaanathil dEvi nee),
  
  adharkO aval "adhanaalenna maasathula oru naaLdhaan pourNami - adha nee therinjukkO" - endru muttukkattai pOda,
  
  avanO vittukkodukkum bhavanaiyil "sari pOnap pOgudhu pO eppadi irundhaalum en kittadhaanE vandhaaganum!" (pOgattum pOgap pOga indhap ponnoonjal en nenjil aadum)
  
  - Oh! my God! ithanai bhaavamaa andha tune-la? andha vaarththaigaL-la? paadiya andhak kuralgaL-la? Andha lines-Oda arththam eppadi pinnippinni varadhu paartheengaLa? We are only fortunate to be here to understand and appreciate this beauty, naa vEra ennathai solla?
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Fri Oct 20 05:08:10 EDT 2000
  
  GR and Karthi:
  
  I enjoyed reading your explanations of parts of
  oru rAjA rANiyidam. andha varigaLil
  avvaLavu podi irundhadhu enakku ivvaLavu nAL
  theriyAdhu! :-))
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Fri Oct 20 23:22:11 EDT 2000
  
  SL:
  
  I have three volumes of books containing the songs
  written by Kannadhasan for tfm. I could not find
  vaNNanththOgain mEniyil vizhuvathu sugama
  in them! I haven't heard of this song!
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.228.132) on: Fri Oct 20 23:23:17 EDT 2000
  
  karthi and GR, good exposition!!! I have always liked the natural , 'in-built' expressions in the lines 'avan vENdum vENdum endraan, avaL naaLai naaLai endraaL'.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ 63.15.178.55) on: Sat Oct 21 00:01:59 EDT 2000
  
  SL, yes that's a very apt one, I missed it!
  
  
• From: sk (@ 137.132.2.109) on: Sat Oct 21 00:12:02 EDT 2000
  
  SL & karthi:
  
  Can we discuss pattaththu rANi? I am very
  interested in hearing comments about LRE's effort
  in this song.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ 63.15.178.59) on: Sun Oct 22 23:32:36 EDT 2000
  
  sk, In MSV's songs generally the choice of singers will be very appropriate. And "pattathu rani" only goes to verify that! I can't think of any other singer than LRE, singing this song: enna oru iLamai and impact andhak kuralil! Andha situation-ku ippadippatta oru gaNam migundha voice-dhaan thEvai endru uNarndhudhaan MSV LRE-yai thErvu seidhaar pOlum! LRE-yin migath theLivaana, azhutham thiruthamaana gamakkangaLum uNdu! If I am not wrong, this song was known even to the Hindi singers, I am not very sure about this though. According to LRE there were 150 instrumentalists on the orchestra for this song! Enakkuth therindhadhai, ennaal mudindhadhaich chollivittEn...ini thalaivar thodaruvaar:))
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.150.58) on: Mon Oct 23 00:37:14 EDT 2000
  
  karthi, u r right. those days hindi singers admired this song. paatula chavukuadi eppidi vandthathunnu? eppidi panninar enru hindi mds confuse aayitaangkalam.
  
  
• From: karthi (@ 63.15.178.238) on: Tue Oct 24 00:53:53 EDT 2000
  
  Appadeenna GR, indha padathukku Hindi version vandhudhaa enna?
  
  Inda sriram-ku oru kural koduthadhaan varuvaan: SL...! SL....!
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.8.41) on: Tue Oct 24 02:57:58 EDT 2000
  
  There was a Hindi version for the movie. The composers Shankar-Jaikishan played the Tamil version to Lata who reportedly admitted that the song was well beyond her vocal 'reach' and did not go through with singing it. I do not know the name of the movie but going by the past, I am sure the songs of the Tamil version should be better. Eg:-
  Sasural => kaaththiruntha kaNgaL
  Dil Ek Mandir =>Nenjil Or aalayam
  Brahmachari =>Enga Mama
  In all the above cases, SJ's compositions were outshone by the Tamil versions.
  
  
• From: sk (@ 192.52.106.30) on: Tue Oct 24 04:51:54 EDT 2000
  
  SL and karthi:
  
  I have heard that Sivaji G acted in Muthuraman's role
  in the Hindi version. Is that true? So, who finally
  sang the Hindi version of pattaththu rANi?
  Was it Asha?
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 164.164.150.58) on: Tue Oct 24 05:00:33 EDT 2000
  
  True SL.
  Thanks to MSV for not copying.
  Yaadhon ki Barath - telugu version paatu paarthean tv-il. hindi tune was used as it was.
  
  Aanal naalai namathey padathil ellam original tunes and super songs.
  
  
• From: Ramamurthy (@ 207.252.247.111) on: Tue Oct 24 11:48:50 EDT 2000
  
  The Hindi version of Sivanda mann is Dharti.It had completely mediocre music by S.J.Rajendrakumar and Waheeda Rahman acted in the movie which was a total flop.The tamil film was no
  big deal except for Sridhar and Sivaji fans.The music was fantastic though.
  Sasural is not the Hindi version of Kathirundha Kangal.It is from a telugu film which was dubbed in Tamil also.I think thedubbed tamilversion came in 1959 and Sasural with excellent music by S.J came in 1960.
  Finally the music of Enga mama pales in comparison to Brahmachari in my opinion.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 24 13:01:15 EDT 2000
  
  Pattathu Rani is one of my alltime favorites and
  I think will feature in MSV's top ten musical
  extravaganzas.
  
  Let me share some appreciative analysis. (creative
  listening).
  
  Some general observations before we get section by section:
  
  1. Song context:
  The song situation is very dramatic - heroine making a vamp dance in an enemy camp while
  hero is planning the shoot out. It used to be
  a neat situation that many TFM songs came out with.
  
  But here it is grand. Because the hero is Sivaji,
  Villain is Nambiar and the belly dancer is Kanchana. And Sivaji cannot be left out even in dance scenes, because he can add value and make people look for him and ignore the dancer! He is part of the dance,
  he acts like the Arab Shaik who gets the reluctant
  dancer to sing by whipping her loudly. However,
  the whipping itself is part of his tactics.
  It is a signal to some one that after 10 whips
  cut the power line and shoot the general. So
  if you watched the movie you can also derive thrill by
  counting the whipshots. I dont how they managed
  to get the whip shots, may be they borrowed an actual whip from a horse-carriage operator or more
  probably a circus clown (you know, these guys have
  a whip that makes a huge sound but does not strike
  at all!) Or alternatively Murugesh found a way
  to create the sound in his mouth with a single
  cord of wire and appropriate mic-ing technique.
  
  Each time the whipping is done, LRE responds with
  a pain-release response, which is well imagined.
  And it is interesting how MSV interweaves
  2 whipshots into the song melody itselfs (naadu
  konda poongodi).
  
  Next we will look at the musical context.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 24 13:06:09 EDT 2000
  
  Side note: if mani ratnam or Shankar were the
  music director they would have even whipped the
  singer to get authentic cries, but luckily
  LRE could get good results without that.
  
  
• From: SL (@ 207.82.165.100) on: Tue Oct 24 14:07:59 EDT 2000
  
  Ramamurthy, thanx for the corrections. But
  savErE wali gaadi - naan thannan thani kaattu raaja
  main gaaon tum sO jaO - chella KiLigaLam paLLiyilE
  Aaj kal tere mere pyaar - Sorgam pakkaththil
  Dil ke Jharokon mE - yellOrum nalam vaazha ,
  IMO were far superior in melody and arrangement esp. Dil ke Jharoken is a typical SJ nursery rhyme:)
  rjay, true...nadi vantha poongodi 'took in' the whiplashes very well. Looking at the melody portion, the pallavi has a class santham and this was extracted from a pre-written pallavi. There is brigha placed in the words 'raani' 'paarkum paarvai' 'vetrikku thaan', with a sangathi at paarkum paarvai the second time it is sung. Hats off! A great song predominantly in 'Sindhu Bhairavi' and one wishes that the recording was more clear!!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.181) on: Tue Oct 24 16:03:48 EDT 2000
  
  I agree with Ramamurthy on perhaps one song.
  
  Dil ke Jharoke was much better than ellorum nalam vaazha. Rafi's emotion-ridden voice is the clinching factor.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 24 17:35:51 EDT 2000
  
  Pattathu rani - Appreciation
  2. Musical context
  
  Melody: The song is clearly middle eastern in its melody.
  SL points out it is Sindhu Bhairavi, I would say
  Sindhu Bhairavi Scale, but not Sindhu Bhairavi
  Ragam. What I mean is that the gamakams and emphasis is very uncharacteristic of Sindhu Bhairavi. And it very closely resembles other
  MSV Middle Eastern melodies like:
  Thulluvadho ilamai, Naam oruvarai oruvar.
  And for MSV's Sindhu Bhairavi you can refer
  Unakkenna melae nidrai. In the prelude humming
  especially the Sindhu Bhairavi mood is clearly
  absent.
  In Greek music, there is a name for this
  scale, I will try to find out.
  SL, comments please.
  
  Orchestration: Is very symphonic. Like Engae
  nimmadhi. Eerie and strong string section.
  Bold Brass section. The only middle eastern
  instrumentation is the flute (layered with
  clarinet, I guess) and maybe a guitar like
  instrument (rhubarb)? And Bongo/maraccas.
  As we go section by section I will point out the
  instruments by what they play.
  
  Here we see that
  a middle eastern melody is set above unusual
  symphonic orchestra. The string section (violins)
  play the dramatic movements. But that is not
  all. During the interludes, you see a jazzy
  halftime feel, which is also exploited in another
  MSV m.piece (Muthukkulikka vareegala)
  A vibraphone plays clear harmonic accompaniment
  throughout. The bass line is very strong too,
  even when we listen the real audio.
  
  Singing. LRE almost acts out the scene with her
  voice. The main mood is a pained dancer, but
  her intro humming is so stylish. And her voice
  modulates in so many ways. There are basically
  4 or 5 songlets that she sings:
  Pattathu rani, (pallavi) Nillungal (anu pallavi)
  Charanam, Thudiththu ezhundhaden, Naadu konda
  - and she uses a different modulation and feel
  for each of these sections! The voice expresses
  a mystery (vetrikkuththan), drama and seduction(nillungal), pain and high energy and so on.
  
  I remember a similar MSV song - thattatum kai
  thazhuvattum, sung by PS, and it is a good song,
  but it does not have so many shades of emotion
  IMO.
  
  
• From: rjay (@ 208.51.40.112) on: Tue Oct 24 17:40:10 EDT 2000
  
  Can we list similar songs set to similar situations? Or just blindly list the songs
  that you get reminded of when you hear Pattathu
  Rani.
  
  I think the following songs match the genre:
  
  Thattatum kai thazhuvattum
  Aattama therottama
  Konjam nilavu
  
  

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