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Topic started by Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on Tue Apr 27 11:26:51 EDT 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Responses:

Old responses
From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Apr 28 11:50:38 EDT 1999

And he goes on.....

Srinath/Raj: Perhaps we can carry on our discussion via e-mail? Thanks
From: Kovai Thambi (@ spica.anonymizer.com) on: Wed Apr 28 12:01:04 EDT 1999

Geetha:
(Final posting for the day from Stockholm)

You are welcome to post your `respectable' views here.

I will not even enter this thread, unless I see something wrong going on.

Did you not say that IR being a Tamilian should owe more to Tamils...blah..blah? Now in one of the recent responses you try to create a `sympathy wave' for yourself saying that his MFM tone is better than TFM tone?

I really suspect if you have some connection with "Amma" who always does such realpolitik things in Tamilnadu.

I do not want to cause any digression here. You guys can freely post your views here.

I am matured enough not to ask Ravi to either ban certain people's entry, or to ask my fellow participants to converse through emails.

Enjoy surfing, browsing, `carnatic'ing and `realpolitik'ing.

I am leaving. Not for good!! (Will come again and again at all threads when forces rise against IR and try to spread false calumny!!)
From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk) on: Wed Apr 28 12:01:15 EDT 1999

And don't pull Raj into this.
From: Kovai Thambi (@ ppp-07-ts10.nerdc.ufl.edu) on: Wed Apr 28 14:21:55 EDT 1999

Geetha:

Is it because you received severe drubbings at his hands???
From: Rex (@ ppp-07-ts10.nerdc.ufl.edu) on: Wed Apr 28 14:26:21 EDT 1999

Kovai Thambi:

Look....whoever you are....Since you are using the anonymizer.com....even I can come as "Kovai Thambi"..... Better give your true name here....or come out of anonymizer.com.....or better try to have fun elsewhere. Tempers are running high!!

So please do clarify whether you are the same "ragumanfan", "Koyamputhur_Kusumban", "Kovai Thambi"?

Even I am from Coimbatore.....so can I use the "Kovai Thambi" punnai peyar from anonymizer.com??
From: Rex (@ ppp-07-ts10.nerdc.ufl.edu) on: Wed Apr 28 14:29:38 EDT 1999

BTW....do you know that there is a separate domain called www.coimbatore.com?? Mails sent to you are coming back? Is the email id that you are providing a fake one?? Just curious to know. Take your time.
From: Rex (@ ppp-07-ts10.nerdc.ufl.edu) on: Wed Apr 28 14:32:39 EDT 1999

Raj:

What happened to your comments on the recent uploadings to my site?? You are not to be found there these days....Engaged in a hot-battle here, I suppose.

If you don't mind, can you email me your phone number in Hyderabad....Just email me, as your previous mail to me was deleted unknowingly from my mailbox.
From: Rex (@ pppa24-resalegainesvillefl1-3r1052.saturn.bbn.com) on: Wed Apr 28 14:54:13 EDT 1999

Raj:

I have an important announcement made at my thread. So can you kindly follow-up on that? As I told you, I am about to leave for India. Do you have any special last minute requests???

Please come over there ASAP. This is something important.
From: Kovai Thambi (@ ascella.anonymizer.com) on: Wed Apr 28 15:35:12 EDT 1999

Rex:

I think you were prompted to `intrude' into my responses after you either failed/tended to ignore the bashings of Geetha over me. Take some time to browse through the Old Responses.

I have not committed a crime by logging in as an anonymizer. You could just fake my name. You could not fake my domain. Also tell me who these guys are: ragumanfan, SPAM,ARR Fan,Raghumanfan, etc. I will then tell you who I am.

Just go and talk about your uploadings in your thread. This is something that I have to do with regards to defending music genius IR and myself from some baitings at the hands of certain `esteemed' fans.

While threatening me of misusing my name (`Kovai Thambi'), did not you think that I can also do the same??

Well the tug-of-war is not between you and me and kindly attend to your business.

Thanks,
Kovai Thambi

(Well I am not from Coimbatore! It is just my attachment to Kovai Thambi,who was very very shrewd enough to get the best out of IR. More than what MR, Bharatiraja and other guys could do.)
From: Rex (@ pppa28-resalegainesvillefl1-3r1052.saturn.bbn.com) on: Wed Apr 28 17:22:09 EDT 1999

Kovai Thambi:

Thanks for your advice. I will never ever visit this dirty thread.

Just stepped in to see if Raj is hiding here as I have some stuff for him at my page.

Raj....konjam vAAnga....namma thread kku. I need your feedback on some stuff, which i have mentioned over there. See ya there.

Rex
From: Srinath (@ 98ca0843.ipt.aol.com) on: Wed Apr 28 20:34:32 EDT 1999

bb:
You really overestimated my intelligence this time :-) It took me a full day to realize that you were accusing me of being ragumanfan ! Gawk ! What a thought ! The thought of fighting with myself in the DF did occur to me earlier, but I never took it seriously. Another nasty thought is coming to mind, but I need a small build up before I can put it into practice ! I guess I won't anyway because I take the DF too seriously to indulge in such childish tactics. Fun, once a while is ok, but underhandedness...has always been a no-no in my book !
From: bb (@ franck.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Wed Apr 28 22:47:46 EDT 1999

srinath:)))))
From: Gokul (@ pool-207-205-187-74.clev.grid.net) on: Wed Apr 28 22:52:50 EDT 1999

>>The thought of fighting with myself in the DF did occur to me earlier<<

Srinath:-))))))
From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Thu Apr 29 02:46:15 EDT 1999

jsrinath@rocketmail.com, jsrinath@hotmail.com:
How do you manage to get that simple jsrinath with every e-mail service? I always end up having to choose betwen
srajesh32, srini_rajesh43, srinir26 etc.?
Number tag illamal mail-id kidaikarathe kashtamaa irukku:(((.

BTW, Indha thread-la enna nadakkarathu?

Rex: Yesterday wholly I was away from DF(by virtue of being away from office..office-la irundha, DF-il thaan kudi iruppaen;-)) ). So, saw your announcement only now. I'm coming there....
From: Clarify please.... (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Thu Apr 29 03:47:09 EDT 1999

Srinath:Adhu enna nasty thought..sollidupaa...TFM-la isai amaikka poriyaa enna?
From: bb (@ franck.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Thu Apr 29 04:30:18 EDT 1999

no, masquerading as silambarasanfan:)))))
From: Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Apr 29 10:00:05 EDT 1999

_ _
\
0
/|\
/\

- Srinath (After reading bb's post) :-)
From: Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Apr 29 10:10:10 EDT 1999

Raj: I have been fortunate enough to be 'on-line' since late '96 - early '97 ! That's when I got myself e-mail ids with Hotmail and Rocketmail. My first hotmail ID was
actually sjaganna@hotmail.com. I lost the password for that and since they did not have very good password retrieval features back then, I had to abandon that ID -
fortunately, I got jsrinath ! Yahoo-la thaan yaaro abase pannitaanga :-(( I got only srinathpvj !

Idhula comedy enna na, some s o m a r i (why is this a 'frobidden' word ? ;-)) has registered a profile in Javagal Srinath's name in Hotmail with MY email ID ! I get mails for Javagal Srinath every time there's a match/competition going on !!! :-)))) Angeyum indha aal marattam pannalaam, but I have never indulged in it. Guess I like myself too much to be someone else :-)))
From: Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Apr 29 10:11:55 EDT 1999

Raj:
Try Raj_S or S_Raj. BTW, I couldn't get jsrinath with usa.net either !
From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Thu Apr 29 11:42:45 EDT 1999

What is your id in cyberspace.org?(Enakku theriyum, enakku theriyum...;-)) )
From: Srinath (@ ss06.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Thu Apr 29 11:53:26 EDT 1999

I am going to take an id in the name of Balaji Srinivasan. What do you think ? Then I'll call myself bibi and fight with you, okwa ? :-))
From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Apr 30 04:34:38 EDT 1999

Naan bibi's-oda sandai podarathillai;-)))

Adhu sari, indha thread-ai edhukku aarambichaanga...namakku mini-chat page-aa pochu!!
From: bb (@ franck.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Fri Apr 30 05:24:02 EDT 1999

he means he doesn't fight with his bibi (wife), not with bb.
From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Apr 30 06:20:06 EDT 1999

Ofcourse, BB. Unnoda thaan dinamum sandai podaranae;-). BTW, I meant my bibis;-))
From: MPR (@ abd1af3a.ipt.aol.com) on: Fri Apr 30 10:22:32 EDT 1999

Raj:

Just take this thread back to the DF, appuram
parungO orE kalakkal thAn.
From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Fri Apr 30 14:25:39 EDT 1999

MPR: Neenga enge inge? Ange pona Ravi,BB-kku prssure erum;-))
From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.101) on: Fri Apr 30 15:57:49 EDT 1999

Geetha, I will try to answer your questions to the best extent possible :

1. "last dying vestiges of creativity in this great musician" - So, even you are of this opinion? You say that no Tamil Film Director can bring out the best in IR, whereas the MFM ones can? Again, what is that? Are the TF Directors so stupid or music illetrate or what is the excuse?

ANSWER - at present, TFM directors are indeed making movies which give one an impression that PERHAPS they are indeed STUPID and Music illiterate. Nowadays, under the pretext of doing something different, our Tamil directors are experimenting with some of the most insipid storylines - mistaking incoherence for creativity. IMO, Mani Ratnam was the person, who brought in the trend of concentrating more on the technical aspects of film-making , sacrificing script, screenplay and thematic content in the process - for instance, ROJA is the most misunderstood film in the sense that it had less of strong story value - read Dominique Lapierre & Larrie Collins's "FREEDOM AT MIDNIGHT " - you will realise the actual facts behind the Jammu & Kashmir issue - instead of making a thought-provoking movie, MR has given us nothing but cinematic kitsch in ROJA- thanks to ARR , the movie clicked in the North, which was and is still reeling under an avalanche of violence, meaningless movies, which were started off during the regime of the Big B! ROJA was nothing but selling patriotism in a very cheap way - absolute dramatic nonsense - all this is strictly IMO -- OK coming back to the main point

2. If IR can compose a symphony, why has he only got "last dying vestiges of creativity" in him? Surely he has a lot of creativity, that he himself must realise.

ANSWER - yes, IR's creativity can never diminish which is proved in albums like GURU, Yaathra Mozhi etc..

3. however, is MFM really not influenced by ARR? I know that most of his albums are dubbed into Malayalam, in fact I have a few. An example to quote, Asokan was dubbed into Tamil from Malayalam.

ANSWER - MFM maybe getting influenced by ARR's music , but the influence is more like effect the Detergent Soap advt. shown before a movie begins in a cinema hall , has on the audience --

4. Yes, I do not expect a Mouna Ragam from IR all the time, but at least 1 in 20 new movies perhaps? One complains if ARR doesn't produce movies, but IR does plenty of them, so why not one good movie in so many? If they are personal favours, why does he not give his best? You and I know what he's capable of, but why is he degenerating his value these days? WHY WHY WHY? Why is his staple diet TFM? If he cannot do justice to it, then why do it at all? Why does he not take up albums, symphonies? Why does he feel that the tamil people do not deserve to listen to the symphony? WHY WHY WHY?

ANSWER - once again, can you mention one movie which has the kind of strong storyline like Mouna Raagam ? so, how do you expect IR to give Mouna Raagam type music.

FYI, do you know that IR cancelled a scheduled trip to Europe to spend some more time to do the BGM for Kamal's "MAHANADHI" - source : Ananda Vikatan issue from Jan'94. Why ? because IR felt that Mahanadhi deserved some extra bit attention to even cancel his trip abroad - tell me how many movies like Mahandhi come out ? so when IR composes for trash like Chinna Durai , he cannot give masterpieces like what he gives for a Mahanadhi - IR I feel is going through a phase in which he himslef is in a dilemma of what to choose and what not to - that is a problwem associated with his ability to choose - do not confuse that with his ability to compose - in a film like Kaadhal Kavidhai, IR has again left an indelible mark in the BGM - can you show me one movie of ARR in recent times (or evn before) wherein he has doe something CREATIVE in BGM ?

5. Read the reviews in the newtfmpage of IR's music, dear God, every song is a wonder as far as his fans are concerned. When someone like me chooses to speak the truth, it upsets people.....

ANSWER - what makes you think thank that you are speaking the TRUTH ?! it is just IYOO (In Your Own Opinion)

6. I'm still awaiting IR fans to respond to my set of questions, spanning from our discussion. Kindly answer them, please. By the way, I think BB was condesce nding my post, as being poor, as opposed to shreading tears on my behalf.^M
How is it that "What IR needs is a good movie. Not a miracle" - Your quote? Plea se feel free to go ahead and give me GOOD REASONS AS TO WHY:

ANSWER - the answer to this question can be found amongst the answers I have given above.

1) he does not stop doing 'rubbish' movies? And so many of them.....And I don't want to hear that he's too poor and that he needs to do all types of 'rubbish' b ecause it's his bread and butter.

AnS : We don't know what is forcing him to do these rubbish movies - there could be any number of reasons.

2) he cannot give good music to these 'rubbish' movies?

ANS : again, the answer has already been given
.
3) he doesn't respect the TAMILS enought to give them the quality of music he gives the Malayalees? Isn't he a Tamilian, who owes his best work to the Tamils and not to others?

AnS : Your above question is PETTHAL - Sachin Tendulkar is from Mumbai, Maharashtra - if Sachin scores a hundred each in Chennai, Calcutta, Delhi , Kanpur, Lucknow and Gauhati, but gets out for a duck at Mumbai, does that mean that he is being respectful to his own people - your point is INVALID. So, why has Saurabv Ganguly never scored a fifty in his EDEN GARDENS ever since he made a debut ? How come 80% of the TFM DFers are coming out with flying colors in the US and Europe (including one Ms.Geetha from UK!!) , instead of "kuppai kottufying " in India itself ? can you give an answer ? "Kaatrullapodhey thootrikkol" - "make hay while the Sun shines" is the dictum - but IR does not go to MFM for money alone - there is something called JOB SATISFACTION - ever heard of it ? if IR gets Job Satisfaction in MFM, what is wrong in him going to MFM ? your question as to "Does not IR owe to Tamils a lot ?" is like asking " do not the NRIs residing abroad owe a lot to Indians whose tax money has given them their degrees and also the stepping stone to go abroad and make mobey in dollars and pounds - so why don't all NRIs (including those from UK !!) come back and serve in India ? When Software engineers can take refuge in the IBMs, Microsofts,SIEMENS and ORACLEs , what is wrong in IR taking musical refuge in MFM to give vent to his creativity ? Your question above is not only irrational but very silly and puerile.

4) he re-cycles his own tunes in movies, like one song in Poonthottam, which I h 5) he has used the similar Beat pattern and Raga of Mustafa Mustafa in Ilavernik aalapanchami in MVU? Is that not trying to be ARRish?

ANS- No way !! on any day, I find " Ilavenir kaala" from MVU far more complete and superior to "Mustafa" from "Kaadhalan"

5) So, is IR coming up with music like Agni Natchithiram nowadays?

ANSWER - how many movies like AN come these days ?

6) If IR does not respect the Tamil community enough to give them quality suff, but respects the Malayaalees more, I wonder why that is. Why does IR need a Fazi l to do good work? Why blame bad song on a director? Did you see ESK? What a God awful film it was, the direction was terrible. ARR still produced good music fo r it, IMO. Why is IR not doing that? If he's not interested in film music, why i s he not releasing the symphony or doing other albums like NBW, HTNI, to satisfy us?

ANSWER - Has already been given above - I have not heard ESK - so I cannot comment - IR needs a Fazil just the same way, Geetha needs ORACLE -

7) Madhan: As for your comments, you mis-interpret me saying booohooo as being wron g(why would I waste time contacting the RPH, if I didn't care? why was that topi c allowed in the forum when it had nothing to do with TFM?), you single me out w hen I, like others point out your mistake and even after I painstakingly e-maile d you and have reproduced the post and explained myself, come up with that?^M

ANSWER : Geetha, I had posted something in the NEW ARR RELEASES THREAD if I am not mistaken on the same question that you have asked me above - I have clearly explained my stand regarding you and why you are being resposible for victimising yourself.

8) So, ARR is predictable, he does a certain set ty pe of song for each film, but IR doesn't? Yes he does, all MD's do, an Indian mo vie is made up of situations like sad/happy/wedding/dance round tree - foreign location dances with white people/lovey dovey/dancey/Gaana.....These are the boun dries to which all MD's have to work to. I saw Guna again recently and the song Unnai Naan Ariven stunned me from hearing it on Rex's page and in accordence wit h the situation, it was wonderful. IR blended Carnatic Keeravani with Hindustaan i Keer and WOW, how stunning it was. If he does stuff like that now, contrary to popular belief here in this forum, I will be the happiest person. Please believ e me.

ANSWER - IR's Genius lies in the Unpredictability in his music - the predictability lies in the unpredictability of his music.

9)MS: Yes, Guru has a lot of Western Classical, but I would have to say that none of it's songs can beat Pookadhave or Vedham Nee, or as I said, Thendral Vandhu E nnai Thodum.^

ANSWER - Guru was custom made for a movie which was loosely based on HG WELLS' "The Blind Valley" - a theme like that required a kind of Biblical slant and hence IR aptly used WCM - with aplomb
From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.61) on: Sat May 1 00:38:41 EDT 1999

CORRECTION :

In the above posting ,
"Sachin Tendulkar is from Mumbai, Maharashtra - if Sachin scores a hundred each in Chennai, Calcutta, Delhi , Kanpur, Lucknow and Gauhati, but gets out for a duck at Mumbai, does that mean that he is being respectful to his own people"

"Respectful" should be read as "disrepctful"

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