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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

1.Vedha:i know he always go for a hindi tune in his films(mostly for Modern theatres).No alterations! he just copy a full hindi song !

best examble:Manam ennum medai mele(Gil tho ye kulu yahag)

2.MSV: i hear that(from Sujatha's book"Neerkumiligal") "thulluvatho elamai" was a song copied from english to almost all famous indian langages.Is there any other songs MSV copied?

3.Illayaraja:Even the GOD of MUSIC Raja sir did some thing like this.He just used that "I love you"style from BOneyM Sunny for "darling darling"in priya.I have heard a totally same song like "Kanavu kanum valkkai yavum" in Hindi also.(i forgot the film).

and i dont know who is the MD for the song"ehu pal vadiyum mugam! ethai parpathu than sugam".But i heard the same song in an english film.

4.ARR : i was told from my friends that he did copying intelligently.drum beats and some music styels from cassettes like "enigma,ace of base".And the humming before the song "thillana thillana" is a 100%copy from the film"the island of Dr.Mozeru".

5.SA Rajkumar : a lot of help from hindi! best example "mallikai puve malligai puve parthaya" from "didi tera thevaru thevana"

5.DEVA:hee..hee..the master.(better we see how many songs he did on his own instead of seeing how many songs he copied!)

like wise there is a lot of songs are copied from Tamil to Hindi also..

Now its your turn friends....

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: KITKAT (@ hlr-13-141.tm.net.my) on: Tue May 2 23:05:06 EDT 2000
  
  no
  
  
• From: Keemu (@ ac81eb35.ipt.aol.com) on: Tue May 2 23:24:54 EDT 2000
  
  http://www.bharath.com/cgi-bin/music.cgi?Mode=List&Code=WW000C0F&a=sdiklg985kmfdsiumds98m
  Listen to the song Thi.Mu.ka from Minsara kanna. While the tune itself reminds me of ARR's 'Monalisa Monalisa'song (athu enga irunthu suttatho!) from Mr.Romeo, Deva has just cut a portion of music from ShivKumarSharma's album called 'Water' and pasted it here. It blends so naturally with the song that no one will get even an iota of doubt about that.
  
  
• From: SRK (@ icache-3.doit.wisc.edu) on: Tue May 2 23:34:16 EDT 2000
  
  rjay:
  
  I agree to a certain extent. For example, when IR used Bach's orchestral suite in ManjaL nilAvukku, it was deliberately to see how this piece could be fit in a TF song.
  
  This could also be said for example when he used Bach's Bouree in HTNI (in "And we had a conversation").
  
  But if you take the song "En purushan thaan enakku mattum thaan" (film ??) - this is a duplicate of "Dum maaro dum" - I feel this was no way intended. It was a musical impression making its presence felt.
  
  I guess a similar argument could be made for ARR too.
  
  
• From: SRK (@ icache-3.doit.wisc.edu) on: Wed May 3 01:52:04 EDT 2000
  
  Continuing my earlier post:
  
  I don't know with ARR but with Raja, I feel his attitude towards copying is a bit philosophical. I could very well imagine him saying: well, these notes have turned out similar to xxx song, but what the hell, repetition is inherent in music.
  
  I say this with a reason. On the Tamizh new year day celebration of 1998 - there was this function felicitating MSV where of course, Raja was present. On stage he pointed out the similarity between one of MSV's songs (I forget which) and one of Mozart's compositions (I don't know which). He has also admitted in interviews how he plays around with other compositions to create new ones.
  
  I don't know if these can be called copies.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp01.sprint.com) on: Wed May 3 10:33:24 EDT 2000
  
  Suggested Plan of Action:
  
  1. BB creates a page called Asalum Nagalum
  
  2. We form a fairly objective and more important a knowledgeable group of experts to which a case of copuy is prsented with evidence. Sridhar
  Seetharaman, Srikanth, Rjay, Sashi,...and I can be part of this 'vimarisana kuzhu'. The song will be determined a copy if 3 members of the group conclude so.
  3. The tekkies (Vijay, BB, MS, Srikanth,....) get together and post excerts from the original and the duplicate once a copy is established. I am saying excerpts
  because (especially for western originals) we do not want to deal with copyright issues. I think loading relevant parts of a song for discussion within the
  purpose of the page will not create a legal issue.
  
  4. We can invite the attention of the original and duplicate recording company to visit the site or the relevant segment. That way we have taken a step towards
  informing the right people and yet, do not come across as a group which wants a downfall of somebody.
  
  Ground Rules (to consider):
  1. No MD is above the law
  2. For starters we will present/discuss only cases where the duplicate is TFM and the original is non-Indian. Presenting copies of TFM <-->HFM is fun, but
  useless in terms of any consequence. Presenting non-Indian --> HFM is outside the scope of this forum, but maybe considered for the Forum Hub.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed May 3 11:33:04 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG,
  iam sending some songs to bb.can we post it in 'copied songs' thread to be decided by u guys and then if it is a copy can it be transported to the site? what do u say?
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed May 3 11:37:40 EDT 2000
  
  guys,
  for a start i'll be sending the foll to bb:
  
  1. mama - genesis - original of meenamma
  
  2. one night in bangkok - murray head- original of interlude music in 'rojaavaa'(priyamudan?) and april maathathil(vaali)
  
  3. maggie may - rod stewart - original of pulveli pulveli tannil from aasai
  
  
  iam making these announcements in order to avoide sending duplicate copies to bb. i think similarly everyone can do this as and when they find the originals.
  
  let the originals be sent in realaudio format.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Wed May 3 12:03:09 EDT 2000
  
  Vijay: Good idea. Also, let us continue our discussion/work on this topic here. I know I am the main culprit to have drawn attention to this in 3 different threads. My intention was to get the attention of everybody towards this effort. I think we have achieved that, so we can continue our efforts here.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com) on: Wed May 3 14:23:16 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG,
  Please consider track 7 (Baktha) from Nssi Nssi by Khaled as source/inspiration for 'thangath thAmarai magalE vA arugE'.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed May 3 14:40:26 EDT 2000
  
  iam also taking care of 'money money money" by abba the source for IRs 'kanmalargalin azhaipidhazh' in the film thaipongal(?)
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp02.sprint.com) on: Wed May 3 14:51:08 EDT 2000
  
  kiru: Can you lead us to an electronic version of Baktha or make and send it bb? Thanks
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed May 3 15:03:58 EDT 2000
  
  vijay can you get hold of the hindi song...kasme vade...negal ketavai flick.
  also vivaldi 4 seasons "spring movement" - entha poovilum vasam varum.
  
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Wed May 3 15:33:09 EDT 2000
  
  Krishna: Even if it means that a certain participant points out to copies only by a particular MD(s), it will still make the list ONLY if it meets the criteria of at least 3 objective poeple that it is so. And if it is so, then nobody is above it. If it is not, it simply will not make the final cut. I have enough confidence in my musical abilities, and more so in the abilities of the people who I have mentioned before that I am not worried about labelling/missing a copy inaccurately.
  
  
• From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.136) on: Wed May 3 15:45:52 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG :
  
  Excellent work to get this organised. I am certain that the anonymous :) committee is comprised of the best talents in TFM-DF.
  
  I have one request though. How and what point does an 'inspiration' become a 'copy'? I mean that the two terms have to be unambiguously defined. IMHO, it is a pre-requisite to define this clearly before the judgments are made.
  
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ el0314.lib.okstate.edu) on: Wed May 3 15:47:39 EDT 2000
  
  srikanth - indha ppovilum vasam varum has very slight touches of vivaldi's spring. I thought they were similar, but no they are not.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ daecfp01.sprint.com) on: Wed May 3 15:56:50 EDT 2000
  
  Diwakar: as far as possible we will try to give the benefit of doubt to the MD (duplicate) in question. But many times it is black and white. We will naturally address the grey areas with a "softer" language.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed May 3 16:23:49 EDT 2000
  
  srikanth,
  iam not sure on vivaldi's four seasons influence on that song. i remember reading soem other composer's name in the context of that song. i have vivaldi's four seasons and i shall send it for verification.
  
  srikanth, i 'll try and get hold of kasme vade.
  i'll let u know in 2 or 3 days about these songs.
  
  can anyone tell me the source of 'adi anaarkali' in ullaithai allithaa. its a 60s rock and roll group, i forgot the name. the doobie brothers?
  
  
• From: Naveen (@ proxy2o.dpn.deere.com) on: Wed May 3 16:37:46 EDT 2000
  
  'Summer Time'
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed May 3 16:41:55 EDT 2000
  
  yeah rajaG, it is very important that u guys come to a consensus on what is a copy or not. in some cases(which does'nt include deva's songs;) ) opinions might be subjective, someone might think tothat there are shades of resemblance and others might think it is not.
  
  I request all the members of the 'expert panel'
  to judge the song as much unbiased as possible without pre-conceived notions.
  
  
• From: Krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Wed May 3 17:29:05 EDT 2000
  
  rajaG:
  
  Sorry for pushing this point just one more time (I promise). Unless someone takes the scoresheet of the accused song and compare it with the original song note by note, all other evaluations that will be made are going to be just opinions. And opinions are generally made based on biases. Hence, my skepticism on selecting an expert panel which legitimizes (or officialize, if that is a word)a select few's opinions over the rest of the universe.
  
  The fairer alternative is what had existed before the formation of this expert panel. People post thier view as to which song had been inspired or otherwise to which a lot of people respond voicing their opinion as to whether they accept if its copied, inspired or not. And those who browse the thread reads thru' all the postings and make thier opinion taking in to account stated biases of the people who make their opinion.
  
  I do not know why I am even bothering to write this but well there's my opinion....maybe just based on my biases.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Wed May 3 17:43:32 EDT 2000
  
  Krishna:
  
  Unless someone takes the scoresheet of the accused song and compare it with the original song note by note, all other evaluations that will be made are going to be just opinions
  
  very much true. There are people like srikanth who can do it.
  
  

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