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SPB and Hariharan - Who is the best

Topic started by Dorairaj Pichaiyan (@ gateway7.ey.com) on Thu Mar 25 11:06:12 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I am starting this thread to be able to bring and share thoughts as to whether SPB or Hariharan is the best male singer in TFM now.

I still think SPB is the best and will be the best for the near future unless someone better than him really pops up.

Hariharan is a over-rated singer can't pronounce Tamil properly and cannot sing with clear sruthi. He is able to sustain just because people like to hear new singers than the old ones like SPB, MANO, Yesudas

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Mar 30 11:40:41 EST 1999
  
  rAjAji :-))
  
  thanks for the info. spb has sung excellent songs in his very early days. (that mail was for some
  other purpose :-) to highlight that one should not assume about others).
  
  regards.
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Tue Mar 30 11:52:52 EST 1999
  
  MS,
  The first time HH has joined with IR is in hindi, the movie rasaiyya ( dubbed in hindi, I cant remember the name right now).
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Tue Mar 30 12:17:59 EST 1999
  
  There are thousands of songs by SPB that could have never been rendered by any singer in IFM past and present. Unfortunately, the movies did not fare well or were abysmal. Ondra iranda eduthu cholla...Aayiram .
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ interlock.itthartford.com) on: Tue Mar 30 12:39:46 EST 1999
  
  Sriram L,
  did you miss a not?! ;-)))
  
  
• From: V.Vishnuramprasad (@ 203.197.129.139) on: Tue Mar 30 13:20:50 EST 1999
  
  Hariharan is at is best when he is rendering Ghazals. He is a learned singer in the field of Hindustani. He is definitely having more sangeetha gnanam than any other play back singer of today. (This in includes yesudas) Yesudas can render good carnatic, hindustani and film numbers but he is not imaginative or creative in music, that requires real gnanam.
  
  Talking of SPB, He is the best among the light music singers. Without proper musical background, he seems to equal or even excel Hari in his imaginative rendition of certain film songs at live concerts. His voice is full of magic. I feel SPB is a gifted singer. Hari has worked a lot to gain melody in his voice, but SPB's is naturally sweet, melodious and melting.
  
  Hari's singing bhaavam is confined to only in Hindi songs (that to Ghazals). But SPB can sing
  any song in any language with full Bhaavam and emotion. SPB gives more melody and value to the lyrics.
  
  My conclusion is SPB is far better Film singer
  than any other (old as well as new) singers.
  
  Hariharan is a specialist in Ghazals.
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Tue Mar 30 13:37:15 EST 1999
  
  Vishnuramprasad,
  
  What???? KJY does not have real sangeetha Gnanam as compared to HH??? and KJY isnt creative?? Please dont make such sweeping statements about an accomplished singer whos certainly known for his creativity. Creativity in coming up with swarams and aalapanais is a MUST for any carnatic music singer and any of the KJY's carnatic music albums will testify to his creativity in coming up with good kalapana swarams and aalapanai!! And I'm told even the swarams used in sindu bhairavi songs for the songs maha-ganapathim and "yochana" were done by KJY!
  
  HH definitely has more sangeetha gnanaam than than ANY OTHER play back singer of today???? What sort of statement is this?? We are now in a time zone where younger generation carnatic music singers like unnikrishnan, nityasree etc are doing well in TFM!! and please listen to their carnatic albums before you make any sweeping statements about how "less knowledgeable" they are as compared to HH.
  
  HH is an expert in ghazals, no doubts.. But singing ghalzals requires no great sangeedha gyanaam.. ghazals are more dependant on the lyrics and the beauty of the lyrics. The tune, the melody and the music comes only second to the lyrics in case of Ghazals (see poems vs lyrics thread where there was a similar discussion sometime back on ghazals). But, how does that make HH have more "sangeetha gnanam" than "any other singers of today including KJY"?????
  
  HH is well versed in both hindustani and carnatic music, and he is a definitely a very good singer. But we dont have as much evidence about his musical-talents esp to comment on his sangeetha gnanam (esp to compare him to KJY's sangeedha gnanam etc)!!!
  
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Tue Mar 30 13:51:12 EST 1999
  
  
  Vishu, I disagree with you on another point that "SPB can sing any song in any language with full Bhaavam and emotion." When it comes to singing in Hindi, SPB is not at his best due to the language limitations. This point has already been discussed in SPB-TMS thread. Many other DFers had also shared my feeling that SPB is definitely not that good in hindi as he is in southi songs. HH has a natural hindi-diction which SPB lacks!!
  
  Kasthuri, I liked your posting. When we discuss x vs. y, most of us tend to talk high of x, at the cost of degrading y. The very fact that they are both popular singers implies that they have some stuff. It would be good to take aspects like voice, range of pitch, language-dictions, ability to give gamaks etc where they are required etc and try and compare both the singers. I enjoyed reading Rameshb and Sriram Lakshman's discussions on comparisons between SPB-TMS in that thread. IMO, this is a better approach rather than saying HH is crappy etc etc. He has his finer points and they deserve due credit.
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: SM (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com) on: Tue Mar 30 14:04:04 EST 1999
  
  e.hari,
  
  Is it 'Chaila'?
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp01.sprint.com) on: Tue Mar 30 14:28:42 EST 1999
  
  Chandy,
  
  I echo your sentiments and points. Just another, what I feel is an interesting observation. Your point about HH's Hindi diction. In his ghazal albums I have found his pronunciation to be very good. I am not an expert on Urdu but at least his 'Hindi sounding Urdu', sounds authentic to me. But occassionally he has surprised me with some faulty pronunciation in HFM. For example, in Chandhaa rE, chandhaa rE he says...chandhaa sE poochEngEy ham saarEy.. instead of poocHEngEy (the cha sound insted of cHa). However, that song is full of cut and paste of clearly various versions of singing. I wonder whether the editors at "Punch than record inn" goofed up and used a 'slip of the tongue' version for the final output.
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ interlock.itthartford.com) on: Tue Mar 30 14:51:08 EST 1999
  
  rajaG
  perhaps they did punch than record that song (as you probably put it inadvertently, the name!) and hence the chattering of the word!;-))
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 1cust44.tnt9.chi5.da.uu.net) on: Tue Mar 30 16:11:32 EST 1999
  
  Chandy:
  Point out few hindi singers who pronounce south Indian languages properly. Anyday people from South Adapt much quickly to North.
  If spb sings hindi badly, who cares,
  
  KJY: His imagination in a carnatic concert is very much below par, he often repeats the same kalpana swarams in most concerts.
  
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ kcecfp01.sprint.com) on: Tue Mar 30 16:50:47 EST 1999
  
  rameshb,
  
  sathyama enakku kOvam varudhu:-) naanEy kashtapattu palnaaL yOsichchu oru (mattamaana) pun senjaa, ongaLa pOla pulavargaLellaam 'inadvertently' nu solrElEy!!
  
  
• From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Tue Mar 30 17:04:57 EST 1999
  
  Srikanth, the issue here is not how many northi singers pronounce tamil well. We are discussing how good SPB is in rendering hindi songs. And as far as SPB's hindi diction is concerned, I'm not too much happy with it. About your query on Who cares how SPB's hindi diction is? May be you dont, but there are siginificant number of listeners (like me) who do!
  
  Regarding KJY, the issue under discussion was comparing his "creativity" with that of HH! And will you call KJY less creative than HH?? I have listened to same carnatic songs of KJY in albums as well as in live concerts, and IMO, I havent found him "lacking any creativity" as far as kalpana swarams are concerned. May be, if you compare KJY with some other carnatic gurus like balamurali or someone, then there is some basis for comparison and you can possibly comment, but not in a comparison with HH!!!!
  
  RajaG, your observation is interesting. I'll try and check out when i listen to chandhaa Re the the next time!!
  
  chandy
  
  
• From: hari (@ hud04a01.ml.com) on: Tue Mar 30 17:25:37 EST 1999
  
  MS,
  thats it, thanks.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: MS (not SM) (@ 129.252.22.112) on: Tue Mar 30 18:49:07 EST 1999
  
  I think there is a slight confusion between MS and SM. Hari, your thanks are redirected to SM :-)
  
  BTW,
  MS ----- Murali Sankar
  SM ----- Shanmugam murugappan (?)
  
  
  
• From: rameshb (@ spider-te084.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Mar 30 19:35:38 EST 1999
  
  rajaG,
  curse me for that! i thought it was indeed a 'slip of your fingers' . I would have used bold face (as against the double quotes) to stress upon the pun intended. Anyway that was a nice one!
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.143) on: Tue Mar 30 23:29:34 EST 1999
  
  HH swallows the word `Vennila' in the end of each saranam in Diana, Diana (KK). IMO, SPB wouldn't have swallowed that.
  
  
• From: GV (@ d27-fx01-lond-pdi.attcanada.net) on: Wed Mar 31 04:29:26 EST 1999
  
  It was interesting to read some sweeping remarks about KJY's "sangeetha gnaanam", "kalpana swaram", "lack of imagination" and "lack of creativity" - in a thread comparing SPB and HH. I do not want to get into an argument or comparisons, but will state a few facts:
  
  From December 07, 1998 till February 26, 1999, KJY performed a total of 29 live shows, 25 of which were carnatic kutcheris. Most of these were in and around Madras and other south Indian centres. For a reiew of his concert at the India Fine Arts Society (Madras), please click below:
  
  http://webpage.com/hindu/daily/990108/09/0908070g.htm
  
  The reviewer talks about the "fireworks of swaras", among other aspects of his performance. Obviously, a lot of people who listen to his concerts regularly disagree with some of the TFMDH experts.
  
  
• From: Venkataramanan Govindarjan (@ freeway.proxy.lucent.com) on: Wed Mar 31 15:47:59 EST 1999
  
  I have suggestion. Instead of discussing their strong points of each singers, Discuss the impact of the these singers on common man. But for no common man those won't be recoganised singers.
  (pardon my slang and spelling living NY/NJ for too long)
  
  I remember an aurgument btw my uncle and my bro regarding who is a better singer btw Mohd. Rafi and TMS about fifteen years back. My uncle suggested that one should compare apple with apple not with oranges.
  
  SPB and HH are good singers and their strong point lies , SPB in voice modulation and blending his presence in the song, while HH follows the rule of music. As far as voice is concerned SPB has a very vibrant voice and is very soft for HH.
  The basic difference is in voice of the singers and ability to rise above rise above the boundary of the voice limitation. Which had nothing to do with sangeetha gyanum(or however one spells it). That's basically creativity. Sangeetha gyanum is basically a feather in the hat.
  
  (FYI:My uncle i refferred to above, he and HH were school mates in Don-Bosco high school, Matunga Mumbai)
  
  
• From: Dorairaj Pichaiyan (@ gateway7.ey.com) on: Thu Apr 1 10:46:51 EST 1999
  
  Venkatramanan,
  There is nothing wrong in comparing SPB with HH. Because only after the emergence of singers like HH, SPB's dominance in TFM seems to have been reduced. This does not mean that HH is a better singer than SPB. The only reason singers like HH, UK are surviving and placed in the top is just because people like new singers even if they are average. Thats how even imitations of SPB like MANO were able to thrive when SPB was at his peak.
  
  The point I want to make is when SPB emerged in TFM he sounded so great even in his first song (Ayiram Nellave Vaa). His pronunciation of Tamil was apt, singing style very innovative and pleasant. He did not sound like a novice to me in his first song. He also showed constant progress and signs of a great singer even when TMS was at his peak. Thats the quality one would except from one of the all time greats. But, Sadly HH does not show any such signs of being a great singer, forget about being better than SPB. He is just the best of the worst.
  
  He will fade away soon when another CON man like ARR emerges and introduces a new set of mediocre singers. ARR is the one to be blamed for all the mediocrity that exists in the TFM male and female singers. Take for Eg. the male singers HH, UK, UM,
  Srinivas, Shukvinder Singh, can anyone tell me whether there is a even one good singer in the list. UK would have been succesful if be was a Flutist, he just blowes so much of air when he singers thinking that he is creating melody. UM is probably the one good singer in this list. I dont have to say anything about Shukvinder Singh he just lives on his bad tamil pronunciation.
  
  V.Vishnuprasad:
  Stop comparing Yesudas with HH. I read your article that Yesudas is very unimaginative. SPB, Yesudas and even Mano has better Imagagination than HH and I find Yesudas no less than SPB as far as imaginative singing is concerned. Listen to Sindhubairavi, esp the Poomaalai Vangivandhan... Yesudas brings a lot of emotion in this song and I doubt whether even SPB can do such a great song.Another one is Kalaivaniye....and I can go on endlessly about Yesudas.....
  
  

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