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WHAT IS THIS ????

Topic started by NagasubramaniaN (@ fw.baan.nl) on Thu Dec 17 03:07:06 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi,
this week KUNGUMAM has one ad. which says this ----------

ISAIGNANI ILAYARAJA ISAIYIL PAADA UNGALUKKU ORU VAAYPPU
ONRALLA IRANDALLA 700 KUNGUMAM VAASAKARKALUKKU !
VIVARAM ADUTHTHA ITHAZIL

Ennayyaa ithu ?? onnum puriyalai !
NagasubramaniaN

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.234) on: Tue Dec 22 00:18:23 EST 1998
  
  Regarding composing for pre written lyrics I like to quote"Manadhil urudhi VEndum" from Sindhu Bhairavi. KIt is a pleasing number.
  
  Srikanth, thanks for your infromative criticizm on IR and ARR. I agree 100% to your statement that it is just a minute's job to play the pieces of ARR. But to play a piece from IR - I admit it is a task in itself. I had spent two days decoding "Rakkamma Kaiyai thattu" and "guru charanam" to separately understand all the tracks and play them on stage. The preludes were relatively simple but the interludes were out of the world compositions. At the same time I took only one hour to play "thendralae mella nee pesu" and two hrs for "Minnalae nee ". Great observation.
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
• From: MSK (@ ra5399a-port4.qualcomm.com) on: Tue Dec 22 04:13:23 EST 1998
  
  Sashi,
  
  Could'nt help noticing that "Pennalla pennalla Oothappu " song by ARR is the same as " Pesum Mani muthu rojakkal pillaikal ellorum Raajakkal"
  (duno the MD , IR.? MSV.? )
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-212.il.us.ibm.net) on: Tue Dec 22 09:23:34 EST 1998
  
  MSK: you are right - it was done by MSV,
  Similar songs.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02956.mayo.edu) on: Tue Dec 22 10:35:39 EST 1998
  
  Hi MSK and Srikanth
  
  Both of you are absolutely right. I think Pennalla.. is inspired by Pesum Mani muthu. Infact the beautiful shift to G2 at the lines Chithirai meni thazhampoo... is also inspired from the song "Chithira poovizhi vaasalile vandhu yaar nindravaro..." a beautiful oldie by MSV-TKR? (Srikanth or others help regarding the MD). The usage by ARR is a shortened version of this old song. However, the beauty is the introduction of this twist of G2 unexpectedly, which is commendable.
  
  
  On the other hand I was listening to Raman-Abdullah on of my favorite Raja albums yesterday and was thinking to myself that 'Muthamizhae...' is one of the trademark Raja song. By that I mean anybody who has experienced Raja!, would definitely pick out this song as very Raja-ish. I couldn't help noticing the similarity between this song and another Raja melody 'Sorgathin Vaasarpadi, Enna kanavugalil...' by KJY and Chitra (help me with movie's name). Very, very similar! Infact the last line of the anupallavi in the both the songs are exactly the same melodically and even in the followup strings! You can freely interchange the pallavi of either of these songs after the anupallavi and sing in the very same tempo, beat construction and instrument settings; probably even the sruthi settings does not even have to change!
  
  Yes both are beautiful melodies in their own respect but I would like people to try to listen to both these songs and comment.
  
  
• From: MSK (@ ra5399a-port12.qualcomm.com) on: Wed Dec 23 04:59:43 EST 1998
  
  Sashi,
  
  Since u were discussing abt predictability ( is this a correct word ) in IR's songs !, i think u should listen to 2 recent songs .. Ilaya Nilave and Meetaatha oru veenai in PVK and Poonthottam respectively !!
  These songs have something in them !! The last 2 days i am listening to this , i am finding it more and more exciting and i find something new in the interludes everytime i listen to it .
  
  Let me know what u think abt these songs !!
  
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed02956.mayo.edu) on: Wed Dec 23 09:09:31 EST 1998
  
  Hi MSK
  
  Currently I do not have these songs (for that matter many recent songs). I hoping to get a shipment mailed towards the end of next month, from someone visiting India currently. I will gladly comment of these at that time.
  
  However, I have listened to Meetatha oru veenai.. on the net once and thought the orchestration was mesmerising indeed!
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Wed Dec 23 10:54:36 EST 1998
  
  MSK: I agree that we can find new interludes everytime you hear Raja's score, likewise I am able to locate another songs with similar pattern (Algorithm). No doubt it is a very good song, lets us take the interludes, There is a guitar like score placed after the first line. Same pattern can be seen in Maha Rajnodu, he places the interludes after the first line on same beat. Musically they are totally different, but the score pattern which I call it as alogrithm is same for both the songs.
  Meetatha veenai makes me still consier Raja has still more to give, wells dry up summer, we use country bomb (vetu - no englsh word simlar) to get more water (bombing does not hurt), similary heavy critizism on Raja (not only for Raja, for any artist) is required if they lose track, this will bring out more from the artist. Just Jalra for all the songs will only spoil the artist. This happend to Raja, many producers started to make movies based on the songs he gave, they did not induce Raja to do his best, Take all the songs Raja did for KB,Maniratham or Kamal, I would say they are the best because these directors know to exploit Raja. Any Artist must be Tapped properly. This applier to Raja also. This my logic.
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.228) on: Wed Dec 23 12:23:46 EST 1998
  
  srikanth,
  just as an addendum to u'r posting,
  
  kamalhaasan and IR were discussing the tune for 'andhi mazhai pozhighirathu'. kamal asked raja to compose for the song. he was not satisfied with the tunes initially and asked raja to compose newer tunes. raja ended up composing 27 different tunes for the song and kamal finally picked the first one which he had initially rejected!!!
  
  i heard this in TV in an interview with eithr kamal or IR, i don'r remember.
  
  the present day/producers barring a very few don't care or don't know anything about music, IMO.if u look at most of the hit films of vijay, u would find that they are not musicals. the film's success had more to do with the screenplay and vijay's acting.
  
  
  even today only shankar and mani's films make headlines for music. these 2 guys take special efforts to make their songs look well on the screen. so i feel that TFM is perhaps taking a backseat at the moment.
  
  so the TFM oly a needs an equivalent of 'guru' to get back the lost interest!!( evvalavu 'simple'aaga sollivitten!!). i think TFM can look up to raja to accomplish this.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.228) on: Wed Dec 23 12:30:33 EST 1998
  
  srikanth/shashi,
  if u had read about anand's interview with IR he had mentioned the excess use of computers and keyboards by IR.
  of late, i have been feeling that his interludes have been lacking a certain kind of depth which they earlier use to have. complexity in orchestration might still be there, as it is a trademark of raja's composition. but they don't stand the test of memory.
  
  
  can this be attributed to the use of artificial music? or is it just a matter of an individual's taste?
  
  somehow i badly miss the flute/violin/tabla combo of IR.
  
  even in 'meetadha oru veenai' i feel that the 'ritigowlai' has been diluted very much by the use of synth. if i compare it to an earlier song in the same raga 'thalayai kuniyum thaamaraiye', i feel that the essence of the raga has not been brought out well in this song!
  
  am i wrong? i welcome u'r comments/opinions.
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Dec 23 12:34:53 EST 1998
  
  reeti gowlai's essence is brought better in chinna kannan azhaikkirAn
  
  
• From: MSK (@ marimuth-nt.qualcomm.com) on: Wed Dec 23 13:12:10 EST 1998
  
  Shankar ,
  
  I would think so though i have'nt listened to the BMK's treat recently !! hariharan struggles at a lot of places !! (mahalakshmi is awesome ..)
  
  But the orchestration and interludes are definitely better in MOV .
  
  Cheers
  MSK
  
  
• From: MSK (@ marimuth-nt.qualcomm.com) on: Wed Dec 23 13:37:38 EST 1998
  
  I agree that criticism brings out the best !! I also agree that a lot of producers/directors were/are bootlickers .. just praise IR and take whatever he gives..Cine world is known for that !
  
  But I don't agree this : "(criticism) is required if they lose track ..." I firmly believe that IR has'nt lost track and it is TFM trend that has gone offtrack ! IR ,inspite of all the ups and downs ( and especially the recent years where most of his gems went to trash, (For eg . Meetaatha oru veenai , or Guru or Kizhakkum Merkum and many others ) has still the enthu to come up with great songs !! That is something remarkable ! And we all agree that he can do better ! he is capable !
  
  Had i been an MD , and if a great song like MOV fares worse than a dabba song, I would have given up music that second !! No music director after 20 + years of churning out tunes left and right
  for movies good and bad , can come up with such tunes VERY well knowing that it could end up in the bottom of the list !
  
  For eg , Visit any tamil cinema web site .. check out the top 10 songs ! On a good day, IR's song would figure down as 8th or 9th in that list ! And I bet ya , that u would agree that the song deserves a much much better spot !! You would most definitely agree that the top 8 has atleast 7
  totally worthless songs in comparison.
  So we have to accept the fact that his songs are not getting the recognition they deserve !
  
  This is what pains most good music Fans!
  
  So either I am getting too Old( not being able to keep up with the "Modern trend" ) or something seriously wrong with TFM audience!!
  
  Lemme stop here ..
  
  Cheers
  MSK
  
  
• From: Desikan (@ a0167.chantilly.mns.net) on: Wed Dec 23 13:44:03 EST 1998
  
  hi,
  
  i read in an article (i don't remember) that HH was practising for about 14 hours for getting the perfect modulation in mettadha oru veenai. vijay i accept that i dont get the same deepth in this song as it used to be in other ritigowla songs esp. chinna kannan, thalaiyai kuniyum thamaraiye, raman kathai kelungal(chippikkul oru muthu). the older songs are really scintillating and the raga itself is more melodious and raja's compo takes us even more. i think only raja has used this raga in films (4 listed above) i have never heard any MD using this raga in films and not even the greats like GR, KVM, MSV/TKR.
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ eed01735.mayo.edu) on: Wed Dec 23 14:07:36 EST 1998
  
  Hi vijay
  
  Very good question. Just as Anand Mahadevan mentioned, I too missed the strings (25-30 violins, which were supposedly used in the 70's both by MSV and Raja) when I witnessed the recording of "Kathum Kuyile.." in Kiz. Mer. at Prasad Dig.
  
  You are absolutely right if you feel something is lacking in the recent songs of Raja (as compared to the classic oldie's). Many well respected musicians have said that the musical quality of an original acoustic instrument, be it a violin, flute, tabla, acoustic guitar, even vocals, can never be reproduced exactly by any electronic intervention/s. This has to do with so many variables which a keyboard cannot simulate. However, the reverse is also true. There are certain funky synth. sounds which can only be reproduced by the keyboards/computer, and IMO it should be solely used for these purposes. Take the example of the electric guitar. This killer instrument has carved out its particular niche and should be used for this purpose predominantly. At the very least it should be modified if you are going to use it for a different purpose (Mandolin Srinivas has modified his mandolin to play carnatic music).
  
  So used correctly keyboards are a great addition, but they can never replace a good orchestra. Even the Holywood giants choose classic orchestral type compositions to get the right feel ( Star wars to Jurassic Park; John Williams composer) Incidently, I was listening to 'Fresh Aire' (a NPR interview program) yesterday. The featured guest was Randy Neuman (or is it Newman?). He is a composer, singer, song writer, and interestingly quite a good one too. They actually placed a BGM (re-recording) piece from the movie 'A bugs life' which was an amazing piece of western classical composition. Do you know what this is for? Apparently a 'grasshopper is chasing an ant/bug'. For this action sequence he has composed this truly wonderful piece of music. He was also paying glowing tributes to his orchestra who were in his opinion vital to the final outcome.
  
  I think I have rambled about this for long now. I would like to say one more thing. Palghat Mani Iyer, the great Mridangam legend, used to refuse to perform in front of the mic (I guess AIR is a different story). His rational is that the "Naadham" (tone) of the Mridangam is distorted when it comes thru the loudspeakers. I feel this is absolutely true. The "Chaapu" which is a particular 'sollu' (those of you who play the Mridangam will be familiar with this) has a very unique sound. It can be considered a combination of a 'dhin' sound from the mridangam and the tone of the 'MOrsing' mixed into one. This particular sound even when recorded in the best recording theatre can never be reproduced accurately. I have had first hand experience of this in a recording theatre.
  
  If you are still in doubt, take an acoustic guitar and strum it out and hear it for yourself. This fresh, clean, refreshing sound can never be reproduced to perfection by any technology (as far as we know today).
  
  So to finally answer your question. Yes, if Raja goes back to the basics (so to speak) and uses lots of acoustic instruments, improves on the recording quality, uses synth only for funky sounds even his recent songs will sound a lot better. However, this is costly, time consuming and in a world were everything is being speeded up expect pregnancy, it is definitely a challenge!
  
  

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