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Why TFM alone??? Ilayaraja is probably the best music director that India has EVER produced. What say all of you??

Topic started by Karthik (@ cnl-4.cnel.ufl.edu) on Fri Aug 8 12:14:55 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: srikanth (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Fri Jun 12 14:54:44 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  ARR has bettered IR in sound balancing, recording, use of sounds, his sounds samples are more international. Calrity in arragements.
  (the recording part), New style to Tamil music, forcing every one towards better recording techs like doubling a sound - inviting best musicians to play - Raja never does that.Infact most did not know nothing but wind has churasiya in it.
  Thats it - I fed up totally... on IR AND ARR..
  see you in a week or two..
  (Sri - :hear and comment on my classical midi in Rjay's page -
  AR vs IR...game ends
  bye.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks15d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Fri Jun 12 16:26:48 EDT 1998
  
  Hear ! Hear ! That's one up for IR fans :-))
  Finally, Srikanth has accepted that ARR is nothing more than an over-glorified Sound Engineer !
  Sorry, Srikanth ! But I simply couldn't resist myself that time:-)
  
  What has ARR bettered IR in ?
  1. Sound balancing
  2. Recording
  3. Use of sounds
  4. His sounds samples are more international.
  5. Clarity in arragements (the recording part).
  6. New style to Tamil music
  7. Forcing every one towards better recording techs like doubling a sound -
  8. Inviting best musicians to play
  
  Points 1 to 5 are the jobs executed by a sound engineer (as many claim ARR is). The others are the work of a Marketing Person (as I claim ARR is).
  
  This is not ARR vs IR. This is a question of the best MD. When someone claims ARR to be the best, I am only providing an argument saying IR is better and also asking why ARR should be considered as the Best. If the above points are the only ones that can be given in favour of ARR, then it is obvious that IR is the better MD.
  
  "Nirutharaen...IR old fashionedunnu sonnaane, avana nirutha sollu, naan nirutharaen. IRukku dappanguthu thaan podavarumunnu sonnane, avana nirutha sollu, naan nirutharaen. anniki humma va kettutu, IRala ippadi bass vasikamudiyumannu kaettane anda Vijay Ganesh(my classmate :-)) kammanati..avana nirithasollu...naan niruthatraen." :-)
  
  
• From: whoelse (@ 161.225.48.3) on: Fri Jun 12 16:50:32 EDT 1998
  
  Simple,
  A technician is enough to over throw raja,
  thats what I meant.,
  
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Fri Jun 12 16:59:20 EDT 1998
  
  Dev
  
  Thanks much for the info on Bupen Hazarika and Mangeshkar. Bupen must long since have retired from the business as he was awarded the Dada Phalke Award? However, my effort is now get those albums you mentioned.
  
  Thanks once again.
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks6d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Fri Jun 12 17:07:23 EDT 1998
  
  Whoops ! For the mantle of the "Currently Most Successful" MD of TFM, YES, a technician is sufficient to overthrow IR. But for the mantle of "Best" MD ever....?
  C'mon Srikanth, surely you know better than to claim that ! I expected a technically sound and logical explanation from you. You have disappointed me.
  I cannot comment on your classical midi on RJ's page at this time as I don't have a sound card on this machine. As soon as I get my new machine (sometime next week), I'll be more than happy to listen to it :-) Meanwhile, perhaps you could give me a short history of your background. B'cos, I feel that your arguments for ARR have a personal touch to them. Have you worked with him before ? Sincerely, I would only be glad if you could prove that ARR is as technically sound as IR when it comes to music (not sound engineering). I would love to have a detailed explanation from you as to why ARR is a better musician than IR. If you insist on sticking by your earlier points, then let me tell you that you are only claiming ARR to be a more successful MD than IR - not a better one.
  
  
• From: Nithin (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Fri Jun 12 17:17:58 EDT 1998
  
  Can't resist replying to whoelse:
  
  It is not a technician who overthrew genius composer Illaiyaraja. It is a sound composer who overthrew the music composer. I am pointing this small pun to whoelse.
  
  Now, to Srinath and Srikanth:
  
  While we should sing the An Ode to Joy of Bach to celebrate this blissful moment of truth and reconciliation between you two, I, for one, am going to miss that Forum street duel you, highly talented fans enaged in and to the utter wide-eyed delight of the viewers glued to their computers. So, you guys have patched up, heh? What is next? Some Poonthottam or Dharma song duet?
  
  Well, guess some of use who used this site like a cowffee showp, must now move on to Baa rders.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks14d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Fri Jun 12 17:34:21 EDT 1998
  
  Nithin:
  'Whoelse' appears to be Srikanth. Didn't you see the IP address ? Unless it is someone else from behind the same proxy.
  
  
• From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu) on: Sat Jun 13 14:42:47 EDT 1998
  
  Srinath:
  
  Good to read your postings, keep it up.
  I'm still waiting to read Srikanth's
  answers for your questions.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Sat Jun 13 19:37:17 EDT 1998
  
  well,well, back to ARR vs IR.after all those hours
  i spent on my computer fighting with srikanth,now another discusssion has started on this topic.this time around my friend srikanth is still on the other side fighting for ARR while this side it is another person ,srinath.
  
  well whatever ravi and others might say after all the 100+ topics that have come up in this forum it is still these ARR vs IR discussions that lightens up this whole TFMDF in my opinion.
  
  continue the good arguments guys!i will chip in from time to time.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Sat Jun 13 19:39:20 EDT 1998
  
  srikanth,
  iam waiting for your next updation of neyar neram and IR's melodious songs section.when is it due?
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 248.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Jun 14 01:00:52 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Guys,
  I am back, the whoelse is my friend who played around my system when I went to a meeting.
  Srinath
  I was not able to answer you at that time because Meastri (that how I addree my Boss) was walking around my place.
  
  So Now coming back to the argument, this is not the right place to talk about AR or IR - who is better etc... Balaji has already emailed saying I have changed the course of topic.
  Once more - I have never told anywhere Raja is good or AR is better than Raja.
  In this topic my argument was Dont blame ARR for copying. Every Md (I will not refer anyone in particular) copies.
  Also VM was recorded 2 years back , mad'o na 's stuff came out just a month ago.
  How would AR copy, Did maddona come in Ar's dream (would have come for other reasons)
  and gave the score for AR -which he used in VM. As I posted earlier these electronic keyboards , samplers bring out similar ideas. If you or me sit with a 01/W Keyboard or a Korg Trinity we will get scores similar ideas near to modern days music.
  So To conclude this is not the right place for ARR vs Raja, as vijay mentioned we had a long fought out battle from the day one in TFM.
  
  (Also vijay - Rajaclassics has been updated just now)
  
  Warm Regards for all you guy here in TFM
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ karthi4.globalcenter.net) on: Sun Jun 14 03:05:34 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay, I don't see how these IR/ARR discussions lighten up the DF. In my opinion, they are the only topics that hold this DF back from being a resourceful tool. All everybody ends up doing is scream and fight over personal preference and in the end nothing is resolved. This is a discussion forum not a prarthanai club or a street corner scuffle. I sincerely yearn for profound exploration of TFM. I get it in a few other threads, but that little joy is threatened every time this ugly discussion pops up in its many disguised disgusting forms. Truly a regressive trend.
  
  
• From: junior (@ 194.170.2.30) on: Sun Jun 14 04:53:56 EDT 1998
  
  WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE SAYING THAT IR IS GREAT PLEASE THINK BEFORE SPEAKING, PLEASE READ ON
  First If IR, is known to be excellent , superb, etc... but why? any reason? I Think that a good MD IS one who HAS provided HITS SUPER HITS! IR HAS HITS, WHAT IS IS HITS TO FLOP RATIO? 1:20? OH SORRY 1:30, OR IS IT 1:10. ATLEAST IT IS NOT EVEN A SUCCESS ATE OF 25%. ARR HAS NOT EVEN HAD A SINGLE CONSIDERABLE FLOP IN HIS CAREER!!! IS THAT AN ACHIEVEMENT OR NOT??? IF THIS IS NOT ENOUGH THEN HOW MANY FILMS HAS IR DONE COUPLE THOUSAND MAYBE? HOW MANY NATIONAL AWARDS A SINGLE LONELY ONE. ARR HAS TWO IN HOW MANY FILMS? 39 MAYBE? EIGHT FLIMFARE IN EIGHT YEARS IN THE INDUSTRY! EVERY SINGLE DIRECTORS NEED HIS MUSIC FOR A HIT! HOW MANY FLIMS ARR HAS DONE ARE GOOD. JUST A COUPLE. BUT HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN A HIT BECAUSE OF HIS MUSIC? A HIGHER PERCENT OF THEM! for instance take kadhalan, minsara kanavu!
  
  NOW LOOK AT WHAT ARR HAS DONE TO TFM, PRODUCED QOOD QUALITY SINGERS, MIXED ALL SORT OF MUSICS TOGETHER, SOMETHING NO ONE HAS DARE TO HAVE DONE! EG. TAKE PETTA RAP, IS IT NOT A MIXTURE OF INDIAN MUSIC WITH RAP!!! BESIDES WHAT EGYPTIANS HAVE DONE TO BUILD THE PYRAMIDS ,TELL ME WHERE ELSE COULD YOU FIND SUCH A TALENTED WORK.
  ALL THOSE PEOPLE JUST ARGUING FOR IR LOOK AT FACTS BEFORE SPEAKING! WHAT YOU SAY SHOULD MAKE SENSE. I AM SURE THAT WHAT I SAID WAS DEFINETELY SENSIBLE!!!!!!!!
  SEE YOU PEOPLE LATER.
  
  
• From: Madhan (@ 202.41.117.70) on: Sun Jun 14 08:17:23 EDT 1998
  
  Mr.Junior,
  
  I am getting fits after reading your posting - that too in bold fonts - nalla jokeaa keedhu mamu..
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 48.minneapolis-06.mn.dial-access.att.net) on: Sun Jun 14 18:27:57 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  Srinath :
  I am now answering - What AR has done better than Raja.
  1. Almost all Ir songs were monophonic, meaning a single tone melody. The western music has something called as harmony. In every AR song you will hear a harmony backup chorus.
  The Harmony he fixes is awesone. In columbus - the second standza - Thalai muraiyai alli -- hear this stanza and see how the harmony is so perfect.
  AR has forced even IR to use Harmony chours in "Enai Thalata varuyo"
  
  2 Normal Tamil song will begin with a prelude or a pallavi - 1st bgm - saranam1 - 2nd BGm - saranam2 - pallavi - end the song.But AR has changed this format - more western again.
  He uses song and chorus formule. Eg :Konjum nilavu.. song does not return to pallavi after saranam - goes to a chorus..
  No even Raja or anybody has tried this before.
  
  2a The Eradication of tabla from the scene,
  boldy used drum scores for even village based subjects, made it a success - porale ponuthaee - is great piece.
  
  3. As told earlier best recording quality,also forced everyone to improve the recording quality. The film Raasayya had a advt :
  "Recorded Digital in 24 tracks in Bombay",
  in all the posters. I was in madras at that time.
  
  4. Bringing the harcore Carnatic musicians like Unni and others to TFM, he also removed the classification of south singers and north singers.
  
  
  5. Introducing a new voices atleast one in every album.
  
  6. Sounds!, very new sounds - people like MJ, Maddona work or spend more time on getting new sounds , AR also does it.
  
  7. Besides voices, he has used all the famous musicians in his albums ( without any E-GO )
  (Nabla aluku rumba Jasthi adhu)
  
  8. Internationl reach - he told about VM and made Tamil Music international.
  
  9. New style all together, gave a feel to TFM fans what international music flavor is....
  
  
  These are few points for AR's successsssss
  I can tell you more....
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: Gokul (@ pgokul.netpath.net) on: Sun Jun 14 20:40:03 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  
  I am not trying to defend or accuse ARR , Just
  want to hightlight a few facts:-)
  
  Skipping Pallavi after a SaraNam, IR did this
  in "Kodiyile" (MaNvaSanai), Adi AathAdi
  (KaDalora KavithaigaL) and more recently
  "Ennai ThAlatta VaruvALo" (KM).
  
  IR did get BalaMurali KrishNa to sing
  "Chinna KaNNan" at a stage when IR's
  Career was a big nobody and BMK was a Cult
  figure in KM.
  
  IR's songs are made of multiple threads of
  instruments and tunes weaving in various
  directions, but ultimately blending with the
  main thread of the song. Isn't this harmony?
  
  Eradicating Tabla, I think IR was the one
  who started using more drums than anybody else.
  
  As far as introducing new voices in every album,
  I dont know if that is a plus in ARR's case
  because barring a very few, most of the others
  hardly deserve to be called as Singers.
  
  The only thing I can accept in your list is
  "New Style of Music".
  
  I question the internationalism in his music. There are better dance music groups in the world. Try Garbage , Prodigy, Chemical Bros etc.
  
  

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