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Shankar-Jaikishan & Illyaraja

Topic started by Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on Fri Jun 1 12:15:20 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

SJ were certainly the most prolific and best MD's of their time. They were responsible for the most number of hits during their reign at the top. I think they can certainly match up to Illyaraja in terms of quality, quantity and versatality. If Jaikishan hadn't passed away in 71, they would have definetly ruled over RDB, LP or any other challenge that would have come their way in the future. They were legends and were very excellent. What do you guys think ??

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: IMF (@ 206.47.240.86) on: Fri Jun 8 13:50:39 EDT 2001
  
  When i say opinions with comparisons are ok, i meant that each opinion of a person involves somewhat of a comparison. If you are defining comparison as in i like for eg. A the best or i feel A is the best out of everthing else. If opinions did not involve comparison then no one would find out what people like. It would be as if for eg. I like A period !!!!!. An opinion is what you like and what you feel about something. So if you say, i feel A is as good as B or A is the best for me, that is absolutely fine. That is what everyone on this forum who starts a topic wants to find out. Why do you think they strat topics then ??. To get feedback on everyone's opinions and what they think about certain topics. What's wrong with that. You're not hurting anyone.
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Fri Jun 8 14:36:18 EDT 2001
  
  IMF: For the benefit of us lesser mortals, could you please repeat your last post in English?
  
  
• From: _ | \ / (@ 203.197.80.154) on: Sat Jun 9 03:05:06 EDT 2001
  
  respected (^!^)
  
  Well sir, we all know who u are. Another person here (mostly the same as u) gives in (^!^) and sometimes just ^!^ as his e-mail id. :-)
  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  bye,
  _ | \ / (GUESS WHO???)
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.80.15) on: Sat Jun 9 10:11:33 EDT 2001
  
  >>SJ were very good but very monotonous sounding guys and orchestra? just noise
  
  U need t check ur ears
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.80.15) on: Sat Jun 9 10:20:26 EDT 2001
  
  >>>If you give a monkey (ie Shankar and Jaikishan) a pencil and paper ask it to write notes, and conduct the orchestra as well - it will also sound in a "fast and rythmic way". But only a dumba** like u will say it is music.
  
  
  dear swamiji,
  I saw u scolding everyone who said he/she likes some other north indian MDs music as much as IRs. Saying IR is great is ONE GOOD thing, but calling SJ as monkeys shows utter lack of exposure to their music (which is PROBABLY NOT the case with u) , or else just plain prejudice. I can understand ur saying that u like IR MORE. Fine. but insulting SJ like that is NOT acceptable.
  
  U are a very knowledgeable person,1000 times more than I am, NEEDLESS TO MENTION. And thats why u should refrain from such remarks, i sincerely BEG of u.
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Sat Jun 9 10:48:49 EDT 2001
  
  LV:
  >>>And thats why u should refrain from such remarks, i sincerely BEG of u.
  
  This is just use less. Don't do that. I have been seeing his posting for long, much before you came here. He is always like this. I am just keeping away from him directly. Who will wantedly spoil their own mood.?
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.200) on: Mon Jun 11 20:29:43 EDT 2001
  
  LV:
  I didnt call SJ monkeys. It was my reply to IMFs
  "Fast and Rythmic way". I think you have added SJ there to show the context, but no I would mean no disrespect to composers - because I love their music as well. BTW I did not "scold" people that liked NI music as much as IRs - but I just showed mere contempt. People that really knew IRs music wouldnt make such stray remarks. But you yourself made a passing comment to the effect "IR didnt succeed in HFM because he wasnt good" - which only an amateur would do. You quoted Sadma - which is a bad example. "sadma" is truly the work of a genius. Anyways I dont want to continue on this topic. But there is one thing i see in you. Your opinions change with time - but all they carry is the message "HFM is better than any of TFM" even if you dont implicitly state it. I can easily sense that in the multitude of postings - and I have seen a lot other people like u. Those kind of people that said "Neele Neele Ambar" was better than "Ilayanila" (just an example)
  CF: This DF is nothing but "showing off" who is more knowledgeable. Mostly people come here to boost their egos but and call themselves "patrons" of music - obvious examples are bharath, arun (sometime back), fliflo etc. To those I was lose on my words. I think it was a mistake on my part to even reply and I couldve just stayed away (as comment mentioned). There is a word in the dictionary called "dilettante (adj)". To those I dont mind abusing straight. I equate them to someone like our "AMMA". Anyways, I found that this DF is mere waste of time. And this reply is a waste of time too. Many musically learnt people have same opinion.
  BTW LV, forget my opinion on whom I consider best. But before you even talk of IR's music, it would be really helpful if you learn/listen understand his music before straying off...
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.179) on: Mon Jun 11 22:37:27 EDT 2001
  
  >>>Those kind of people that said "Neele Neele Ambar" was better than "Ilayanila" (just an example) <<<
  
  Who ever has said that should have been a fool by birth.
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Tue Jun 12 09:59:08 EDT 2001
  
  CF here is eg. of one such.
  
  From: Ajit Iyer
  Date: Mon Jan 29, 2001 8:37 pm
  Subject: RE: [pancham] Copy Cat
  
  
  
  I personally think KA did a much better job in Neele
  Neele Ambar Par The guitar pieces are mind-boggling.
  The Tamil version is plain vanilla compared to this
  
  --- Subhajit Dasgupta wrote:
  >
  > There is a bengali copy of this song too, done by
  > Hridaynath Mangeshkar
  > for the film Ashrita. not related to Pancham, but
  > just couldnt help
  > mentioning
  > this.
  >
  > subhajit
  >
  > On Mon, 29 Jan 2001, Venky Subramaniam wrote:
  >
  > > Subhash,
  > > I can speak for 'Nile Nile Ambar' confidently
  > though I cannot speak for others mentioned by your
  > friends. Ilayaraja's compostion was original and way
  > > ahead before KA made 'modifications' after
  > copying the original ...
  > > Venky
  > >
  > > -----Original Message-----
  > > From: Subhash Chandra [mailto:subhash_c@y...]
  > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:21 AM
  > > To: pancham@yahoogroups.com
  > > Subject: [pancham] Copy Cat
  > >
  > >
  > > Recently couple of my tamil friends visited my
  > place
  > > and they were quiet interested in my mp3
  > > collection(though they hardly understand much of
  > so
  > > called good hindi film music )..but to my
  > surprise,
  > > they knew most of the songs as they told me that
  > > almost same composition do exist in tamil...
  > > for eg song like neelay neelay ambar
  > pe..(kalakaar),
  > > they say its ilaraja's composition...and same was
  > true
  > > for lot of pancham songs..Now this put me in utter
  > > confusion, who copied whom??? any idea?
  > >
  > >
  
  
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Tue Jun 12 10:01:33 EDT 2001
  
  one RDB fan on aye zindagi..
  > Dear Panchamites,
  >
  > I had been listening to a very good quality recording of the Ae
  > Zindagi Gale laga le from Sadma composed by Ilayaraja. previously I
  > had listened to this number only on a cassette and thus had falied
  to
  > notice the amazing array of instruments that the maestro has used
  for
  > this song. My untrained, amateur ear could pick up guitars, flute,
  > keyboards, accordion, sitar, santoor, tabla, saxophone, some south
  > indian percussion like ghatam I guess and a host of others !! It
  > seems he was weaving a symphony instead of putting a lyrics to
  tune -
  > It is one wonderful piece of listening experience.
  >
  
  
• From: e.hari (@ 199.67.140.20) on: Tue Jun 12 10:28:21 EDT 2001
  
  KK,
  That is the old discussion in RMIM. IFRC, some people ( RDB fans) were trying to prove a point by posting that IR copied the song illya nila from a bengali song, just to offset the stream of posts proving how much RDB copied.
  Infact seeing some of the posts here from people like IMF, LV throwing lot of trash on anything related to south of maharastra, I can not imagine how a South indian music fan could have survived in RMIM.
  
  e.hari
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Tue Jun 12 10:32:36 EDT 2001
  
  thats is the plight of hindi music fans,
  one good example is our half boiled indianmusicfan here, just heard few rafis number and starts to talk big...Arr gave them the kick starter on tamil music, ....however these folks missed the IR bus, it is not late to take that bus...:)
  
  btw:I once played in a culturals in north india , Delhi, I really dont rememebr the name of the culturals (even some iit'ns participated). We played pudhu mappilaiku.....after the show everyone was asking about the composer for this song, I then got a tape of the song and played it on the PA. Appu raja was due to release then, i told them to get the hindi version.
  No one knew about it till then.
  
  Simply a hindi song is collection of a tune (at timeS good ones, with nice voice like KK or rafi:), a basic dholak and triple congo beat and a set of violins going from sa to sa....for the past 50 years...this is what we are hearing in hindi. LP uses this formule...the most.
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.81.30) on: Tue Jun 12 12:46:49 EDT 2001
  
  Reespected Comment:
  
  Are u the same comment who said the following to me?
  
  >>>>>>
  From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Fri Jun 8 11:47:57 EDT 2001
  
  
  Lv, I just read your postings, some what interesting. you are right on S&J has done great work in the past. Basically my feeling is many have not heard much music from other mds, they simply tell what they have heard so far is the best, which is mostly IR's work.
  Like Ir, Other musicians have done some great work, which I have been telling here for the past 4 years now , you know what happens when you make such statements :)
  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
  
  So forget a comparsion with IR - if a person says that Naushad,CR,Roshan,Madan Mohan,Anil Biswas, Jaidev,Hridaynath, Sudhir Phadke and Hemant Kumar,Salil C,SD Burman, Shankar Jaikishan etc etc are mediocre (thats what u mean when u say that HFM songs are nothing but a collection of dholak,violin from Sa to Sa etc etc), then
  I would call him/her tone deaf.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.81.30) on: Tue Jun 12 12:49:23 EDT 2001
  
  >>>Infact seeing some of the posts here from people like IMF, LV throwing lot of trash on anything related to south of maharastra, <<<<
  
  E hari: U've started your BS again. I never meant to undermine IR - its YOU who is underming and trashing every other MD - ARR included. So stop suffering from amnesia.
  
  
  

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