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Shankar-Jaikishan & Illyaraja

Topic started by Indian Music Fan (@ 204.50.249.133) on Fri Jun 1 12:15:20 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

SJ were certainly the most prolific and best MD's of their time. They were responsible for the most number of hits during their reign at the top. I think they can certainly match up to Illyaraja in terms of quality, quantity and versatality. If Jaikishan hadn't passed away in 71, they would have definetly ruled over RDB, LP or any other challenge that would have come their way in the future. They were legends and were very excellent. What do you guys think ??

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: IR Fan (@ 4.54.221.56) on: Tue Jun 5 14:51:22 EDT 2001
  
  Swamiji, is that true that IR played for SJ? Anyways, IMF and rajaG please do not continue with silly comparison with SJ. SJ were very good but very monotonous sounding guys and orchestra? just noise...
  
  I mena with ARR itself i do not understand what pleasure we derived? IR is incomparable so far and for another 300 years unless they take IR's DNA and clone him.
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Tue Jun 5 14:53:31 EDT 2001
  
  Mr. IMF
  
  i remember some time ago, you started comparing LP& IR. now SJ&IR. anyone else?
  
  what IR did is to change IMFs (HMFs, really!) to TFMs.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Jun 5 14:56:10 EDT 2001
  
  IR Fan - yes it is true. Before he entered films, IR used to play the guitar for other MDs.
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Tue Jun 5 15:05:58 EDT 2001
  
  My hunch (obviously it is only a hunch) is that IMF is an oldtimer trying to pull our legs by involving us in purposeless discussions. I guess this is somebody's idea of having fun!
  
  
• From: IMF (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Tue Jun 5 16:55:24 EDT 2001
  
  Swamiji,
  
  I didn't start a comparison by comparing SJ to IR. I just said that i feel SJ are as good as Illyaraja when it comes to some parts of music. That is NOT comparing. I am just stating my opinion and want your feedback on it. that's all. WHY do you take everything i say as a comparison. When people here start to compare then that's their problem. I am just stating my opinion and want your feedback, that's all. You need to sharpen your mind and understand what i am really saying. I never compared Illyaraja to SJ by saying which one was better. people here started saying MM or SDB had more style, but i gave them proof that SJ had more style than them. What's wrong with that. Don't say i don't have musical knowledge because i know many things about music. By the way, just out of curiosity, how old are you and what is your profession. I heard that you have shows coming up. Do you perform somewhere ??.
  
  By the way, where did you hear this interview by SJ talking about IR. Can you give me the link if you have one. If SJ said he is a genius than i agree with them but it doesn't mean SJ weren't good themselves. I feel they were really good also. Let's not argue and try to get along.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Jun 5 18:37:39 EDT 2001
  
  I am only 50 years old. My profession is meditation and bringing some sense to the world, and yes I perform poojas and other divine acts for public.
  I don't have the link. It was published in Times of India long time back, and I just happened to remember when you mentioned the two.
  
  BTW, you say you were not Comparing and at the same time you say "whats wrong in having an opinion which one is better". To me they are contradicting statements. I think you are going through major identity crises in TFM page. Just to let us all know that you know music of olden times. Well, we all got the message now thanks..
  
  
• From: swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Tue Jun 5 19:14:45 EDT 2001
  
  "By the way, where did you hear this interview by SJ talking about IR. Can you give me the link if you have one. If SJ said he is a genius than i agree with them but it doesn't mean SJ weren't good themselves" seems to come from a really hurt soul. SJ will never tell others "I am not good as IR". Now do you see the point??? Buddhi vandudaa?
  
  
• From: IMF (@ 204.50.249.133) on: Tue Jun 5 22:46:14 EDT 2001
  
  Opinion and comparison are two different things swamiji. If i say i like someone better, it doesn't mean i am comparing him to someone else. If i say i like lata mangeshkar, it doesn't mean i am comparing her to asha bhosle. I just like the singer based on my opinion. It doesn't mean that if i like someone, i am comparing them to someone else. I don't understand how that is contradicting.
  
  
• From: (^!^) (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Wed Jun 6 10:04:06 EDT 2001
  
  Grammar Lesson #1 to IMF
  
  A is Good - Positive
  A is better than B - Comparative
  A is the best - Superlative
  
  aiyO! ippdi kazhuththarukkaraanE!
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Wed Jun 6 19:17:43 EDT 2001
  
  IMF,
  
  I did not mean style as in type but as in stylishness. Anyway, as someone else said this is all just a prank. What is next in line - "Anu Malik and Ilayaraaja" ?
  
  
• From: lv (@ 203.199.132.59) on: Thu Jun 7 00:08:25 EDT 2001
  
  dear sugrutha:
  
  Well - u seem a real knowledgeable person. Indeed.
  And I respect ur personal choice of preferring IR over SJ. However somebody's statement here that IR was a million times all other MDs + ARR put together is just stupid.
  
  Maybe SJ should not be compared to IR. However I want to object to something u said about SJ - that they did not do well with Sharada and Suman.
  
  Now now now - Sharada was a terrible horrible singer. She did not deserve even ONE song. I heard that Shankar took her because of a reason we should not discuss here ( else this forum becomes a Stardust magazine). Anyway, Jaikishan had severely opposed that.
  
  As far as Suman, I adore her voice and personality. I and my parents once had the great fortune of meeting her and speaking to her at length!!! Anyway - SJ have given great songs to Suman,Manna Dey,Asha,Hemant,Talat and even PS for Telugu movies. Of course like almost everyone else except OPN their favourite was Lata. However the variety they gave was marvellous. Cabaret,devotional,classical,ghazals,romantic songs,folk songs,sad songs,happy and frolicky ones,songs with great interludes,songs with no orchestration,songs with heavy orchestration - everyhting. And they had the ability to give really simple tunes as well. I remember Pandit Jasraj saying in a Saregama episode that it is very difficult to give a simple tune that is very effective - just like it is difficult to write a simple poem in blank verse and yet maintain the peotry in it!!!!
  
  Anyway- as far as adoring IR is concerned, I am there with u all the way.
  
  
• From: IMF (@ 206.47.240.86) on: Thu Jun 7 13:17:14 EDT 2001
  
  To lv,
  
  It is true that SJ had tremendous variety and the statement about IR being 1000 times better than all md's put together is wrong. You know, when i started this topic, i just wanted feedback on what others though of SJ and IR. I wanted to know what they thought of SJ's music and how ggod it was and i told them them that i feel they were as good as IR in some departments if not better. Then people started bashing me about doing comparisons and not giving out personal opinions. But anyone who just gives an opinion will have somesort of comparison in it right ?. You can't just say i like A and let's discuss. That will be boring . If you say i like A and say i think it can match up to something else such as B, what's wrong in that. The discussion will be interesting that way. Isn't the point of this forum to get back personal opinions and feedbacks ?. I'm not going overboard by saying SJ is better than IR. I am just saying what do you guys think of SJ's music and how it relates to IR's music or how it matches up to IR's music. If someone else starts a comparison saying one is better than the other or really takes it serious, then that's their problem. I like everyone else who starts topics here, wants to get feedback on everyones opinions. Lv, Do you think it is wrong to give opinions ?. Then why start a forum like this ?. People shouldn't say oh don't give personal opinions because you are comparing !!. Each opinion will have somesort of favouritism and comparison. If it doesn't then it is not interesting. If someone saya they like IR better than SJ or vice- vercs, that's absolutely fine !!. What's wrong with that ?. Everyone wants feedback based on what one thinks and that is an opinion. If someone gives an opinion based on wrong facts, then that is wrong. They should give right proofs to back up their statements. I like you have gone around correcting others on wrong facts. That's all. If i give an opinion based on right facts, what's wrong with it if it has a comparison. It's not harming anyone. Everyone gives their own opinion based on true facts which they have heard. Please get back to me on this one !!.
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 65.11.240.45) on: Thu Jun 7 23:56:19 EDT 2001
  
  lv,
  
  Suman is quite good but not in the Lata league. So SJ could not give the same magic with her. ( Mannadey, Hemant, Asha and Susheela were also extremely seasoned and great singers and in the same league as Lata and Rafi) SJ was a half generation ahead of the other older composers like SD, MM, CR, N amd OPN, so naturally their orientation was more modern while retaining the older order with semi-classicals and ghazals. I listen to a lot of old HFM, for the tunes, singing and perhaps nostalgia. Of Rafi and Lata, what they sang for SJ and MM are the best. (BTW if you like Lata and Asha you must listen to the Marathi Bhav geet that they have sung for their brother. Very different tunes)
  
  IR on the other hand, has given some very memorable songs with absolute newcomers. Variety of tunes is one thing, but a slick and savvy presentation is another thing. IR had new tunes as well as superb presentation. IR is leagues ahead of any of the famous composers from India. The way he uses silence in his songs, is breath-taking. Orchestration is a very western concept. Ilayaraja adapted it for Indian music very intelligently and ingenously. (Although SC was also trained in Western classical, his sequences lack the originality of IR.) The prelude in the topic says "I think they can certainly match up to Illyaraja in terms of quality, quantity and versatality...". I say, no sir, no way.
  
  
• From: LV (@ 203.197.82.168) on: Fri Jun 8 10:42:58 EDT 2001
  
  dear sugrutha,
  
  Well well - do u know Marathi??. I do - very very well. Yes all their projects (not just Marathi) for their brother are TOP class. Really great.The Mirza ghalib ghazals, the Mira bhajan, Dnyaneshwari,Bhagvad Geeta, the Marathi bhavgeets and fishermen songs (koli-geete), the Raam bhajans and the album in tribute to Shivaji Maharaj are TOP class - all by Lata. And Ashas bhavgeets for her brother take you to the seventh heaven of delight. Heard 'gele dyayache rahooni' and 'chaandane shimpeet zashi'?
  
  And the films like 'Lekin','Subah' and a few more are fabulous musicals. Poor Hridaynath - he did not have his due.
  
  (I've just come away arguing with my uncle who says that Hridaynath's music was cluttered). Good I found somebody who agrees with me :-) )
  
  
• From: IMF (@ 206.47.240.86) on: Fri Jun 8 13:44:19 EDT 2001
  
  All this arguing should stop and we should discuss music in a good way. I think no one should start topics on this page which are really interesting because all it will lead to will be arguing and blasting and mockery that has all been going on in this forum for a long time now. Opinions of anyone are fine and even if they involve comparison is absolutely ok. But opinions that people have should be based on solid facts and not just out of the sky facts !!. I when i started this discussion ,just wanted feedback on what you guys thought about my opinion. This is what this page is all about right ???. Feedback on different people's opinions. To tell you the truth, only sugrutha and lv have actually given me good feedback. The rest of them have just blasted around saying oh ! no comparisons and it's wrong to talk about this and stating facts which are out of the sky. c'mon guys, let's just discuss good music and give feedback on everyone's opinions. I like everyone else here didn't intend to start any arguments or fights or get anyone angered up. I just wanted your feedback !!! Simple as that !!
  
  

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