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Brand New Topic - ARR Vs IR!!

Topic started by tigger (@ 205.219.204.23) on Wed Nov 21 15:45:39 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

top ten reasons why IR is better than ARR:

1. Raja's music is like a 5-course meal but he prepares it like fast food. Rahman's music is like fast food but he prepares it like a 5-course meal.
2. Raja's music is like Coke - the real thing. Take it or leave it - but think of tinkering around with it to make it more palatable and fans would be horrified (people familiar with New Coke's disastrous introduction in 1985 and it's subsequent withdrawal will understand better what I mean). Rahman's music is like Pepsi, definitely the choice of a new generation, but coke fans will never really understand what it is that people like about Pepsi - ughh!.
3. Raja can compose a tune at the drop of a hat, but the song is so unique and the various sounds blend so well that you feel as if God intended the song to be that way and there is no way you will accept it any way else. Rahman takes ages to give that right 'impromptu' touch to his songs - and changing most of his tunes (very few of his songs are pretty good and therefore fit the do-not-change criteria) will not cause me to lose much sleep.
4. Raja's music is like a perfect wife - nice to be with, comfy, goes above and beyond to take care of your needs, and usually exceeds expectations. Rahman's music is like a typical wife, when she's good, she's great(kannodu kaanbathallaam), but when she's in one of her moods, she can be terrible and you feel like yelling "shut the **** up" (minsaara kanna - jeez, shut the **** up!)
5. Raja's music pulls at your heartstrings, Rahman's makes you want to shake an arm and a leg but doesn't quite reach your heart.
6. Raja's music is so unique, ARR is repetitive for the most part.

OK, #6 was lame, but I wanted to write atleast 6 points.

Tigger

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Mon Dec 3 00:16:58 EST 2001
  
  tigger, please note tat i did not come up with the ac/natural breeze analogy. But since u want to bring it further, and what the heck, this is fun.. :-)
  
  
  natural breeze lasts for a few minutes b4 they die off. Then it's a new breeze altogether next season. (I'm sure u know basic geography). A/c systems are replaced in the same way.
  
  And U write off ac as man-made and artificial, yes it is. But it's man's application of naturally occuring processes such as air distrubution, cooling & heating processes, heat radiation, space air diffusion, evaporation, condensation, etc. These processes are created by God and occur naturally too. All the ac design engineer does is to redivert these processes to work in a system which delivers the desired results. So though the system ie. the pumps, ducts, vanes, heating and cooling coils, may be replaced, the processes still exist as they are as these are natural too. All u need is a new set of equipment. I'm sure ARR too replaces his equipment, if they get faulty, without which he can't create his naturallu occuring music.
  :-)
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Mon Dec 3 00:19:01 EST 2001
  
  typo: naturally occuring
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Dec 3 01:47:34 EST 2001
  
  :-)WHYNOT...good 'cover-up' explanation regarding that AirConditioner example...but u heard of a book called "ZEN AND THE ART OF MOTORCYCLE MAINTENANCE"...that tells you where 'classics' (like you) go fully wrong while 'romantics' [like me, i would dare to say :-)] make better sense. It is exactly here you go wrong, when you think AC as a 'man made non-living system'...rehman is making the same mistake,IMHO...I suggest you take time to read through that book, if ever you get time for reading that is,(what with your seemingly compulsive obsession of being SARCASTICALLY REPULSIVE in every anti IR discussion thread, trying perhaps to pass off all your personal opinions into public domain as public consensus..IMHO, NOM...)
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Dec 3 01:53:14 EST 2001
  
  :-)dearest WHYNOT...now don't you come up with your oft repeated "hey, cool it man' stuff as reply...i would prefer you put forth in concrete terms what is on your mind...(i mean, try to be as much analytical & objective as possible, instead of subjective statements & vague arguements)
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Dec 3 02:04:38 EST 2001
  
  :-)but i can see atleast some sense when you talk...but that "NO JALRA" is unbelievably stupid and crass. God, how much i wish he never came to know about this newtfmpage.com and the discussion forum..
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Mon Dec 3 02:29:54 EST 2001
  
  :-) Dearest neutral fan, I don't understand what u mean by:
  >>It is exactly here you go wrong, when you think AC as a 'man made non-living system'...rehman is making the same mistake,IMHO<<
  Can u please explain? I don't have a clue wat u r talking about. AC is a man made non living system, right?
  
  >>your seemingly compulsive obsession of being SARCASTICALLY REPULSIVE in every anti IR discussion thread<<
  I don't remember taking part in any anti-IR threads? Can u please give me an example of an anti-IR thread? Also, please note, it is an IR fan who came up with this ac vs natural breeze statement.
  I didn't know I came across as being sarcastic. I guess i have a mean sense of humour and this has been misconceived before, which is why i try to add more :-) to show I'm in good humour when i say these things. But i've always reiterated tat these are my personal opinions, so there's no possibility of me trying to pass this as a public consensus, like u say.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Mon Dec 3 02:37:04 EST 2001
  
  Just to add, tigger also identified AC as "Artificial, man-made". So is he also making the mistake of a 'classic' as u say?
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Dec 3 02:45:47 EST 2001
  
  ok let me make it simple for you. Gizmo/techno music kits are non-living systems alright, and i would not say their usage is wrong, but what i am implying is that the output from these non-living systems cannot remain 'non living' too. Hope u get this one. Can these techno instruments that merely enhance the 'sound quality' grossly substitute 'human creativity' that is needed to create music that has life? And setting aside your penchant to sound as the sole PRO for a particualr MD, can you, from the bottom of your heart state which music director's offering has 'life' (what we call 'jeevan' of the song in tamil?) [expecting a open reply from you]
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.132) on: Mon Dec 3 03:04:29 EST 2001
  
  neutral fan,
  
  I don't think tat producing jeevan in Tamil songs is a skill tat is the sole 'copyright' of any particular md. ARR, IR, BW, KR, all have jeevan in their songs as far as I'm concerned. If u disagree, then maybe u're the one who is being PRO to a particular MD.
  
  >>Can these techno instruments that merely enhance the 'sound quality' grossly substitute 'human creativity' that is needed to create music that has life? <<
  Actually wat u say, sounds like wat i was telling tigger. I was saying tat the ac system is not merely a set of equipment. But it is a set of different components that are designed to redivert naturally occuring (God created) processes to create the desired responses. Whereas tigger said tat an ac is just a system tat is dumped when it's done with.
  And i also added tat while the naturally occuring processes which the ac makes use of last on and on, the equipment is just needed to make it work in the way required. So while I compared ARR's music (ie. his creativity) to the naturally occuring, the equipment he uses with the physical components of the ac system.
  
  Maybe u should read tigger's post and my post clearly. You have just agreed with me, actually.
  You should set aside your penchant to disagree with me no matter what, and read my posts clearly.
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Dec 3 03:18:07 EST 2001
  
  >>..//"I don't think tat producing jeevan in Tamil songs is a skill tat is the sole 'copyright' of any particular MD..">>//..
  
  :-)Dearest&loveable WHYNOT, for your kindest consideration, "JEEVAN" is not something that can be "produced".This is what i pointed to, when i talked about "classics" mentality, where you use all techno gizmos to produce a incompetent substitute to 'NATURAL ESSENCE'. There are two modes of approaching 'music' field. One as 'profession' and other as 'pure labour of love'(labour of love: KRIYA/ACTIVITY which you would love to do even if it means you would not be paid for it for instance). And you very well know in which of these two modes a "soulful" product will emerge? Don't you?
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Mon Dec 3 03:33:05 EST 2001
  
  Look neutral fan, u have talked about two sets:
  
  First set:
  1) producing music with human creativity
  2) producing music with techno or whatever equipment.
  
  AND
  
  Second set:
  1) producing music as a labour of love
  2) producing music as a profession.
  
  Now with regards to the ac system, u were talking about the First set. So I believe I have adequately answered your question. Leaving the ac analogy aside, I believe tat u can't create music unless u have both creativity and the equipment (be it techno items or real musical instruments).
  
  Now where jeevan is concerned, U are talking about the Second set. And u can 'produce' a labour of love. The end result of a labour of love is the product, the music. So i don't believe i have used the wrong word here.
  
  Being an IRfan, I believe u r trying to imply here tat while IR produces music as a labour of love, for ARR it's merely a profession. Well, as I've not been in the minds of both ARR and IR, I can't second guess wat's in their mind when they produce music. All I know is tat both make/have made their livings from 'making' music, whether as a labour of love or as a profession, and both are good at it.
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.133) on: Mon Dec 3 03:39:13 EST 2001
  
  neutral fan:
  I think tat what u say about classic vs. romantic sounds abit like left brained vs. right brained.
  Classic sounds like left-brained (logical, sequential, rational, objective) while romantic sounds like right-brained (subjective, intuitive, holistic, random). I've taken a left/right brain test before and I turned out to be like 49%right and 51%left, which is quite a good balance. But my studies, work etc, requires me to be more of a left-brainer, so your classic description is probably correct.
  
  
• From: neutral_fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Dec 3 03:48:00 EST 2001
  
  :-))
  
  DEAREST&LOVEABLE WHYNOT, there is no 'two sets' i am talking here...let me again make it simpler for you...here is the link you are missing...you say...
  
  First set is:
  1) producing music with human creativity.
  2) producing music with techno or whatever equipment.
  AND
  Second set is:
  1) producing music as a labour of love
  2) producing music as a profession.
  
  and what i see today in TFM is,
  MDs producing music as a labour of love approach music with MORE human creativity AND THUS churn out songs with JEEVAN. And MDs producing music with techno or whatever equipments are mere professionals that churn out songs (often "sounds" as you yourself point out) with VERY SHORT LIFE SPANS. Don't you feel MUSIC is better approached as "a labour of love" ?
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.137) on: Mon Dec 3 04:02:33 EST 2001
  
  Ok, neutral fan.
  So this is all about techno stuff versus real instruments, eh?
  Techno stuff: no jeevan, mere profession, no labour of love.
  Real instruments/ochestra: labour of love, jeevan, beyond just a profession.
  I get your point.
  Well, i know tat in an ARR concert, to fend off such 'jeevan-less' allegations, he sits together with a few singers, shuts off all techno eqpt and uses 'real' instruments to go thro several songs to show he is capable of making such songs. But being professional, which he is bcos i think he doesn't have a choice as he is a relative new-comer and he doesn't have years of repute to fall back on unlike IR. So he's got to do wat he's got to do to stay afloat. Though it may come across to u as jeevan-less and i know u r not the only one who says this, they sound fine to me. Maybe bcos i don't have the whatever it takes to relish real instruments, perhaps, but i know i'm not alone in feeling this way.
  It was nice having this discussion with u. gotta go now. Will reply anymore stuff later. :-)
  
  

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