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MSV,IR not given padmashri or padmabhushan

Topic started by k.arunprakash (@ 213.17.49.95) on Sat Jan 26 03:22:38 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

it is really sad that tfm geniuses like msv and ir have not been recognised with these awards.any comments please?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Mon Jan 28 07:36:15 EST 2002
  
  Naaz:
  
  If PS did not do well in the north,fine. LM,AB did not make it big in the south either. Well I do not know why KR Vijaya did not make it big up there, but attributing everything to bias is quite unfair. If so many heroines did well, it means that Northies have accepted southies. Maybe IR CHOSE to give Tamil film music primarily. As per his websites, even his works in the other 3 southern languages is tiny as compared to TFM. Is that bias?
  
  How about ARR??
  
  I have high regard for all southern forms of art - esp. pure Carnatic music - but frankly speaking I totally disagree with people cribbing - "oh northies dont recognise us". Another example is Salil Chaudhari inspite of being a genius did not do (or was not allowed to do????) more than 23 Malayalam films!! Same for RDB, C Ramchandra.
  
  Enough of digression from me.
  
  Coming to the title of this thread. It is sad that MSV,IR have not been given this award. IMVHO IR deserves Bharat Ratna or atleast PADMAVIBHUSHAN. So does PS. So does KJY. So does SPB.
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 139.85.116.189) on: Mon Jan 28 08:32:18 EST 2002
  
  Whatever be the reason, it is really pathotic that these people (MSV, IR, PS)are not awarded Padmavibhushan still.
  
  
• From: mahabs (@ 203.197.138.163) on: Mon Jan 28 08:41:13 EST 2002
  
  avr
  
  i appreciate your frankness and thanks for your views.
  
  anbudan
  
  mahabs
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Jan 28 11:23:45 EST 2002
  
  "Mainstream" northern acceptance - was the key sentence in my posting, AVR. Please consider that and then do an analysis. IR is considered "Southie" and ARR is considered "Mainstream". Ditto for PS and the rest in my list. LM, AB were already "Indian" institutions - as they were the queens of film music from the "North". Their success (or failure) in the "South" was immaterial. They had "mainstream" acceptance even before they made it to "southern" singing. And they were given more opportunities in the "south" (despite their faulty tamil) than PS was even considered for in Hindi. And LM, AB were greatly honoured by the "southies". The masses celebrated them, the journals/media gave them generous coverage, and people from all walks of "southie" life listened to their songs in tamizh (although at times it did not sound like tamizh at all.) That is THE gesture of the "southerners" respect and regard for LM and AB (and their "northern" achievements). The same cannot be said for the "northerners" in their reception/regard of KJY, IR, SPB, VJ, Kamal Haasan, K. Balachander, KSC etc...And mind you, these are not mediocre artistes by any stretch. But they were still straddled with the prefix of "madarasi" or "dakshini"
  So nobody is cribbing about bias here. The respective case-studies speak for themselves about bias, tolerance and acceptance.
  
  
• From: ML (@ 64.12.107.157) on: Mon Jan 28 18:11:20 EST 2002
  
  http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?sid=1&fname=Chennai+Festival+%28F%29&fodname=20020121&secname=Arts+%26+Entertainment
  do you guys agree?
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.82.58) on: Mon Jan 28 21:11:49 EST 2002
  
  naaz-
  similarly naushad, rdb, c ramchandra, salil c,latha, asha, rafi - all great artists who made forays into the south - did not make it big here.
  
  What do u mean by saying ARR is "mainstream"??
  
  U arent getting my point.
  
  Ultimately Hindi being a national language is more popular. More people understand Hindi than Tamil. Thats why the difference will always be. Northies are ignorant of south indian music. But saying that southies were never accepted well in the north is wrong, and facts that I have stated prove the opposite. Anyway, i think we will have to leave it here.
  
  
  Mahabs:
  
  Thanks for your appreciation. I hope I am not hurting anybody here. But I am calling a spade a spade.
  
  
• From: avr (@ 203.197.82.58) on: Mon Jan 28 21:13:26 EST 2002
  
  also if LM , ab did not sound tamil - none of those artists above sounded "spotlessly hindi". Anyway, we are back to thew beginning. I think we shall never agree :)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Jan 28 21:47:39 EST 2002
  
  AVR - can you for once abandon your defensive posture and think??? I guess that is asking for the impossible. Nobody said that Northies never accept Southies (READ MY POST and others here). I pointed out how there might be a legitimate case to be made for the neglect of the Southerners in EVERY field - not just the ARTS. Secondly, you might want to afford and respect Southies the perception they have...after all, they are the ones who are feeling the disregard (and have a list to prove it). DON'T be flippant about their perceptions!
  And for your info - HINDI is not poplular because it is the National Language. In fact, in the South there is great resentment (and at times, justifiably so)on the IMPOSITION of Hindi on Tamizh speakers. Northern speakers of HINDI don't even have to make an attempt to speak any southern language - and what's more, they demonstrate utter contempt for the Southern languages.
  And if you don't get what "mainstream" is - look it up. Not everyone here is waiting to explain things to you - which, even if they state in the clearest terms, you never seem to grasp! I thought you were a person of REASON and ANALYSIS. But it becoming more and more apparent to me that you are given to impulse more than intelligence.
  I will have nothing to do with you hence. Thanks.
  
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Mon Jan 28 23:51:48 EST 2002
  
  AVR - can you for once abandon your defensive posture and think??? I guess that is asking for the impossible
  
  I dont accept this compliment and therefore return it to u. U know what that means :)
  
  Nobody said that Northies never accept Southies (READ MY POST and others here).
  
  Yes u did talk about "BIAS" against Southies and selective bias etc. If u mean to say that evry south indian artist who ventured up there should have been roaringly successful, then it a different issue. Then the same yardstick should be applied to the reverse scenario too!
  
  I pointed out how there might be a legitimate case to be made for the neglect of the Southerners in EVERY field - not just the ARTS.
  
  Things outside the scope of music are outside the scope of this forum.
  
  
  Northern speakers of HINDI don't even have to make an attempt to speak any southern language - and what's more, they demonstrate utter contempt for the Southern languages.
  
  
  Telugu has been made compulsory in several schools in Delhi for the past 6-7 years, AFAIK.
  
  
  Not everyone here is waiting to explain things to you - which, even if they state in the clearest terms,
  
  
  I agree with u here. Nobody should try to clarify to me things that may have been clear enough. But the fact is they ARENT. :)
  
  I thought you were a person of REASON and ANALYSIS. But it becoming more and more apparent to me that you are given to impulse more than intelligence.
  
  Hmmmm everyone who disgarees with u (and moreover quotes atleast 10 examples to refute the claims u make, as i have mentioned here) is automatically quoting u out of context, is making myths.
  
  Note I am not the only person u have attacked with lovely adjectives - whynot,trend,isaiosai (ks)..........have all faced that on different threads. Guess, they (just like me) are incapable of reasoning :)
  
  
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Mon Jan 28 23:53:38 EST 2002
  
  naaz,i shall also add a certain RAMKI to the list above. I just read all the recent POSTS on the VJ thread :)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Tue Jan 29 01:58:14 EST 2002
  
  Yeah, I think unbiased was right after all. The sensible ones stay away from these forums. Those were words of wisdom!
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Tue Jan 29 03:20:40 EST 2002
  
  Naaz:
  
  I'll tell u one thing - unbiased calls himself that fancy name and yet passes blanket statements like "Janaki is no extraordinary singer" :)
  
  Maybe all the ultra-wise, sophisticated, scholarly people should go to some page or website for superhumans. Basically coz such people cannot digest disgareements :)
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 139.85.116.189) on: Tue Jan 29 09:43:02 EST 2002
  
  unbiased doesn't mean participating nothing. Considering others like us is the matter. avr, I dont know who said that. But I am sure that he is not unbiased.
  
  
• From: vengayam (@ 203.200.84.66) on: Wed Jan 30 06:09:56 EST 2002
  
  Naaz has a point. Hindi people- by & large- are myopic in their stupidity. But on the positive side we should not give too much to awards. Good music is by itself a reward. PS, MSvV & to a certain extent IR have all been rewarded sufficiently.
  
  
• From: peeps (@ 203.199.207.198) on: Wed Jan 30 08:33:07 EST 2002
  
  If you take a list of the people who got central governement awards, more than 60% of that list are people who have political influence or have supported the governement in one or other way..Gone are the days where awards were given for merit or excellent performance !!..
  Things are totally different nowadays..
  The doctor who treated gets Vajpayee for leg problem gets an award in the next few days..Most of them dont have respect for awards at all..
  I am sure IR or MSV never take these things to affect their mind..may be in their early day they might have a longing to get it..
  Getting into peoples heart is more difficult than getting awards !!
  All IMHO.
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 213.42.1.244) on: Wed Jan 30 08:51:02 EST 2002
  
  Forget national awards. They have no credibility.
  MGR got the national award for Rickshawkaran.( I think it is because Indira Gandhi wanted an alliance with AIADMK.)& Sivaji never got one.
  
  I don't know what films were relased in that year. But I can bet my life that there was a better performance than MGR's
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ 139.85.116.189) on: Wed Jan 30 09:15:15 EST 2002
  
  i had seen the movie rickshawkaran. it is idiotic movie and MGR's acting was not at all great. But I wonder y sivaji cudn't get the national award when he had got international recognition?
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Jan 30 09:16:15 EST 2002
  
  Well said, peeps. Merit is the least of the factors when it comes to certain awards. How does one know that KJY Padmabushan was not influenced by the presence of K.R. Narayanan - the president of India who is from the state of Kerala. Of course, this does not mean that KJY is undeserving (he should have got such an honour a long time ago, but) - but a voice of influence in high places makes things fall into place sooner than just "merit." It is these behind-the-scenes factors - the "other" factors - I was referring to in my earlier post. KJY is the only singer thus far to get a Padmabushan...(SPB has a Padmashri...so mark my words...the lobbying on his part by his cronies will go into full gear and in a year or two his name will make the list for a higher accolade...)
  Merit has gone out of TFM (or film music in general) these days, where high-calibre talents are languishing without assignments, and all new and art-less types are making waves.
  Everything is about Whom you Know. Not What you Know.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Wed Jan 30 09:18:44 EST 2002
  
  Sivaji chose not to play the "sucking up to the higher ups" game, GR. Some artistes believe in their art more than they believe in awards. A good, appreciative audience is enough of an Award for them!
  
  

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