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MSV,IR not given padmashri or padmabhushan

Topic started by k.arunprakash (@ 213.17.49.95) on Sat Jan 26 03:22:38 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

it is really sad that tfm geniuses like msv and ir have not been recognised with these awards.any comments please?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: ramesh (@ 24.125.75.71) on: Sun Jan 27 17:00:04 EST 2002
  
  It isnt new for the people handing out awards to make dumb decisions. There have always been many talented people who havent beeen suitably recognized in India .
  
  eg : Sivaji has never won a National Award .. ( we all will agree that he is perhaps the greatest actor Indian cinema has seen ) and he has been aptly recognized by the movie fraternity as Chevalier.
  
  Similarly IR's recognition in the musical community ( from carnatic music to the International arena ) is unparalleled.Find some reviews of IR's compostions by Zubin Mehta and you'll know.
  
  I am glad that ARR has been recognized though I feel it is a little early in his career.However ARR's wprk with Andrew Lloyd Webber is soon going to eclipse such awards as the Padmashri . Similarly the lack of Padmabhsushan does not diminish IR's genius.
  
  We just have to accept that such awards mean nothing at all ( which is a pity )
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.54.126.204) on: Sun Jan 27 18:56:20 EST 2002
  
  arun_uk wrote:
  <>
  
  No offense intended but you could have mentioned Andrew Lloyd Webber to her for starters.Gerald Seligman to chase it up.He is a famous UK-based music producer,journalist and consultant.His article on ARR is here(click on liner notes once you get there)-
  http://www.mondomelodia.com/mondoindia.htm
  
  <>
  
  Why would one want to?Mass audiences everywhere are conditioned into sheep-like acceptance of what is fed them and that is even more true of the West where carefully demographic-targeted faces are selected,groomed and marketed to a public already geared to look for extraneous factors like sexiness,cuteness and/or coolness.Manufactured icons like Britney etc dont "know" much about music.They dont have to.There are huge teams of producers/mentors/writers who make their living slaving behind their bland facades.For example how many people know the name of Patrick Leonard who has created most of Madonna's hit melodies?Suffice it to say that your Western colleagues are by no means some godlike ultimate arbiters of musical merit.Far from it.
  
  
  
• From: Sreeni (@ 203.54.126.204) on: Sun Jan 27 19:00:11 EST 2002
  
  oops!The posting mechanism seems to have swallowed the comments I was responding to.Here they are-
  
  arun_uk wrote:
  "To me these arguements are senseless as music is all about individual perceptions. If I should quote an instance- one of my english colleagues here in England, after listening to many IR an ARR songs told me that both their music sounds strange to her. She said IR's music sounds ancient & ARR's music sounds like corrupted western and spanish music. To sum it up she said she couldn't understand how 'strange' our music tastes are. What in the world could I have done? Am I going to spend a lifetime trying to convince people that our men have more music knowledge that Britny Spears,Boyzone,Hearsay & West-life,to name a few. "
  
  
• From: ROBIN (@ 212.138.47.23) on: Sun Jan 27 20:10:22 EST 2002
  
  AWARDS - by Indian Government or any Government is just bull-shit. Very few times, deserved people will get. Awards are based on the selection of maximum 10 judges. So, it is purely depends on the interest of them and the political influence in it. Nothing more than that.
  
  I just want to mention one quote of Mr. Mamooty,meha star in Kerala. After he receives his best actor award from Indian government for the first time, when asked by a reporter about his feelings, he simply told -' This is nothing special. It will be special one, if these awards were given to right people. In my next state, one acting lion is living.(SHIVAJI). He was not given with any awards like this. So, this is nothing special or new to me.'
  
  SHIVAJI, IR, MSV - are unrecognized gems in India. The reasons are simple -
  
  - They are not north indians.
  - They are considered as best only in TAMIL, by
  the methavis.
  - Above all they are non-brahmin, backward class
  hindus.( Many people will shout for this. But
  this is the fact. This is same as white skins
  getting OSCAR awards)
  - They are not for minority community.
  
  Above all,
  
  THEY ARE HIGHLY TALENTED.
  
  - ROBIN
  
  
• From: ravi (@ 212.138.47.22) on: Sun Jan 27 20:12:37 EST 2002
  
  Robin,
  
  FANTASTIC and Punching reply.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Sun Jan 27 21:53:13 EST 2002
  
  Admittedly, there is a bias in these Award honors. While I am a bit reluctant to paint north indians with a broad brush of "ethnic" preferentiality, it remains to be pointed out (that in current/past TFM contexts) the "South" (esp. Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh - where the biggest movie production houses/studios are) is rather more welcoming of "Northern" talent in their midst (sometimes, aggravatingly and ingratiatingly so...but nevertheless) whereas in the "North" (for film industry purposes "Mumbai" ) everything south of Kalyan is either looked upon as "madrasi" or is treated with a nascent disdain (tamil/telugu brahmin/non-brahmin, alike). Interestingly enough, some of the most "celebrated" of film heroines who wowed India in general were all from the south - Waheeda Rehman, Padmini, Vyjayanthimala, Hema Malini, Rekha, Sri Devi, Jaya Prada...so while it may be "bias" it is of a very selective kind.
  Awards, though good for the deserving artist, are sometimes conferred for other reasons that just "merit". True ART/istes is/are not dependant on institutional accolades.
  
  
• From: Titleless in US (@ 64.126.84.100) on: Sun Jan 27 23:09:23 EST 2002
  
  Naaz: While, on a serious note, I tend to agree with the general apathy of the North when it comes to the achievements of the South, in a tongue in cheek fashion, why does the South (especially the TF world) need additional recognition from the north? After all, we are free with handing out titles and awards purchased at bulk rates from "Titles are Us". Do you really think there is space in the showcase to keep the Padma.... awards for people who have seen it all within their second movie? :-)
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Sun Jan 27 23:40:07 EST 2002
  
  Naaz:
  if many of the celebrated heroines in bollywood etc were southies, then why do u say that they did not welcome southies in Bollywood. Dont u see a contradiction in that?
  
  
• From: avr (@ 143.127.3.10) on: Sun Jan 27 23:45:44 EST 2002
  
  Also ARR,maniratnam,sivaji ganesan,Kjy, ms subbalaxmi,BMK,SPB,MLV have got Padma/bharat ratna/dadasahib phalke awards.
  
  I understand KJY desreves more than padmabhushan but he will get a higher award for sure and deserves it.
  
  OTOH ashaji, kishore, SDB,Salil chaudhari,hemant kumar.... did not get it.
  
  So what does this prove.
  
  do not take this personally, i cannot understand what u really meant by "selctive bias". (Also read my post above again.)
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Jan 28 00:42:47 EST 2002
  
  No, AVR - I do not see a contradiction in that at all. I was alluding to a form of bias that is predicated on "mainstream" northern acceptance, even for the heroines I have mentioned in my earlier post. KR Vijaya, Bharati, Saroja Devi, Sri Vidya and Vijayashanti also had their debuts in Hindi films at the height of their popularity in the South. But they did not succeed. Of course, these were all talented actors and there could be any number of other reasons for their failure in the North.
  Southerners,on the other hand, are willing to give the lesser talented (sometimes, even atrociously so) failures from Mumbai a second chance in their films. Kushboo, Naghma, Simran, Rupini (Komal Mahuhakar in the North)...
  The traffic, either way, seems to stop at the import and recognition of "heroines." The heros from dakshin to uttar are hugely spurned.
  Other examples of excellence who seldom make it are, of course, considered "parochial" or belonging to a certain "limited" reach. IR is perhaps the most prominent example in this list. MSV, KVM, Sivaji Ganesan, PB Srinivas, P Suseela - just to randomly list a few, are confined to a "southern" audience. The workings of all this can only be an enigma.
  
  I have only mentioned FM personalities here. There may ( I am sure there are ) be other glaring omissions in other categories/fields - all from the South. So call it what you may - bias, preference, oversight - there is a case to be made for a certain obvious neglect.
  
  
• From: Naaz (@ 24.76.127.63) on: Mon Jan 28 00:50:45 EST 2002
  
  Titlesnless in the US:
  I concur with your "tongue in cheek". Nothing succeeds like excess. And the "southern" awards/titles to overhyped and overexposed artistes (all in the span of less than half-a-dozen efforts) is decidedly alarming. :-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.5.246) on: Mon Jan 28 04:14:07 EST 2002
  
  Can some insider detail out the procedure for a citizen to be considered for these awards...
  
  It's OK for a very popular figure like LataM to figure in the list (since most of the selection panel members & public will automatically know them) but we also see some not-so-well-known figures in the list of those awarded.
  
  The questions are:
  
  1. Who picks their names, lists their achievements etc & forward to the panel? Can this be made out by a pAmaran and sent to the concerned Govt dept.? For that matter, which is the Govt department concerned?
  2. How are panel members picked? (I assume there's a panel since Shri K R Narayanan may not be deciding each of these). What are the criteria for one to be a panel member? (It is a must that they should be already having Padma* titles & things like that)
  3. How do they check the authenticity of the list of achievements? What are the proofs needed?
  4. What is done to make sure that political or other (say money) bias does not influence the selection?
  5. What rating must one get to win BR & how much it is more than PV, PB & PS? (I read on The Hindu that one khatak expert -about whom most southies like me muse be hearing for the first time ; the name didn't even register in my mind- refused to accept PV since nothing smaller than BR will do)
  
  After all, these awards are given by the central Govt. which must be governed by a written procedure (which must be there at least on paper). Can some knowledgable person throw light on that?
  
  Discussion / denouncement on the merits or otherwise of these awards will be more meaningful once the awarding system is understood, IMHO.
  
  
• From: raj (@ 198.151.230.253) on: Mon Jan 28 07:15:21 EST 2002
  
  Well Said NAaz,Eden
  
  PS,MSV,IR all Deserve these Awards
  
  Particularly PS Deserves BHARAT RATNA
  
  But Imp is Always given to Northies Rather than South..
  
  They hav an Aversion towards South.
  
  To add to this List ie who r eligible for Padma.. are
  SJ, Vaali etc..
  
  But since These People Belong To south..This Discrimination is there
  
  
  
  

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