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Where did Hey Ram and Sirai Chaalai' music fail in relation to the epic Lagaan

Topic started by rf (@ 172.164.126.190) on Sun Oct 21 02:08:51 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Lagaan is a must see, though it did not come from Chennai, it is a must see to understand so many things about what TFM and TFilms in general have missed out in catering to a global audience. An actor who gave us Appoorva Sahotharargal with Ilayaraja Hey Ram was a big mistake and lacking in thinktank. Kamalhasan depended on Hype for that abstract storyline to sell. Sirai Chaalai was too stuffed i believe with elements that it lacked proper perspective and its songs were just ordinary attempts. A period film should have the type of music ARR created for Lagaan. Amazing stuff! (IMHO, Lagaan has become my favorite film in all aspects (screenplay, acting, story, casting and the bgm and songs)while Apoorva Sahotharargal is my second favorite...) I am saying that IR should come out of his mould and look at a world audience in taking up assignments like period films and be open to suggestions/criticisms/information and keep eyes and ears to the ground. IMHO, directors prpoducers are shunning him because audience has changed but IR cares only for Mozart and Bach and not for contemporary ideas. Lagaan is a good lesson for how Marudanayagam's music should be composed. I know HCIRF cannot accept this, it will take time as it took me (SuperFanofIR) to learn.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.187) on: Mon Oct 22 13:42:50 EDT 2001
  
  Okay,
  I am not going to fight.
  
  An other proof of ARR's excelence in scoring music for period films is "Zubeida". Its a semi family drama (period 1947+).
  
  This film will be shortly on air in STAR PLUS.
  I need not say any thing about its songs.Mile stones.
  Just watch the movie (with out any prejudice....you are not going to loose your bank balance).
  I will get back to you with actual timings in STAR PLUS.
  
  Bharath:
  I don't understand what you have said about Iruvar. Its music is a success (not a mega hit ofcourse), but film failed with the audience. Reasons are many. But, again ARR's part like Music for a different periods of that film, with some proven old tfm touch and BGM were par excellent. I have seen the movie thrice (of course, with not more that 50 people in Woodlands, once).
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.253) on: Mon Oct 22 14:37:29 EDT 2001
  
  I saw this thread over the weekend but could not time find to post anything. Anyways, we have digressed from the topic. siraichAlai is fantastic..it is better in my opinion over lagaan. If Lagaan is considered better than siraichAlai, somebody need to explain the musical nuances in it EXPLICITLY here. Otherwise, feel free to consider me and others of my ilk a 'musical gnana soonyam' and be happy with your view.
  
  Re: IR, WCM and 'too much notes' - well..a musician has interests and he has to do it that way. There is no 'right way'. Please do not insist that he 'missed', 'did the wrong thing' etc. People like Bharath mention that IR sort of 'outclassed' himself from the majority of audience. I am not sure whether an audience that restricting itself to simple/catchy melodies and losing out on much greater enjoyment of the nuances of ICM and WCM is at a loss or the musician itself.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 22 15:02:46 EDT 2001
  
  CF,
  
  completely agree with what you said infact I had mentioned it myself... but I was suprised that wasnt inlcuded in this discussion.. Because that was also the movie where the MD delivered and the movie didnt click! (or that is not the topic here)
  
  Kiru,
  
  //". I am not sure whether an audience ....is at a loss or the musician itself "//
  
  The answer is the producer is at loss! But seriously as much as I wud appreciate a person trying to stand out in a crowd with his strong conviction in his philosophy of music, I would expect that person to tolerate failiures that may come in the form of people not being upto speed with him.
  
  This is not to patronize IR (or his fans) but just playing with pure facts that "hey ram" and "siraichaalai" didnt do well and lagaan did.
  
  Maybe I made the mistake of coming out with reasons myself. I should have let you do it!
  
  I would be happy if someone (especially an IR fan) wud do the work of explaining why scintillating musical performances in "siraichalai" and "hey ram" failed but allegedly "simple" Lagaan worked!
  
  I personally like BOTH "hey ram and lagaan" songs but not many!
  
  so YOU come out with reasons and I'll interpret it rather than the other way around.
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 22 15:17:14 EDT 2001
  
  //"If Lagaan is considered better than siraichAlai, somebody need to explain the musical nuances in it EXPLICITLY here"//
  
  okay! again since you have COMMITTED that siraichaalai is better than lagaan I would be grateful if you could explain WHY?
  
  I honestly know lagaan does not have a good bgm (it was mixture of songs and some digital sound in the bg)
  
  There WAS a lot of BGM work that happened in "siraichaalai". I did notice the bgm but since I was watching the movie could not analyze it the way I wud analyze a song. I also KNOW that less people wud normally return to watch the movie again just for the BGM. Thats the way the majority are.
  
  so inspite of the enormous difference Lagaan did well! why? I really dont know and I want to know! is IR jinxed with regds to multi lingual (one's that includes hindi) movies?
  
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Mon Oct 22 15:45:53 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  
  /*
  But seriously as much as I wud appreciate a person trying to stand out in a crowd with his strong conviction in his philosophy of music, I would expect that person to tolerate failiures that may come in the form of people not being upto speed with him.
  */
  
  i believe IR is doing just that !:)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Mon Oct 22 15:53:40 EDT 2001
  
  I haven't yet seen "Hey Ram" or "Siraichalai" till now.I'm planning to take these two courses in the future.So, could someone recommend a good University where I can take WCM 101,ICM 101 and Musical nuances 101?
  
  Are there any other pre-requisites?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Mon Oct 22 15:57:14 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath:
  
  May be our perspectives are indeed different. I watched the movie's malayalam version and it did seem to impress me. Or else, I would not have spent on a couple more of popcorn buckets later :-) To me, the screenplay did make an impression and I could appreciae the work of IR at every point in the film. I have not seen the hindi / tamil versions of the same film BUT have listened to all the songs in all the 3 versions umpteen number of times. I still think it is a good movie to watch once more :-)
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Mon Oct 22 16:03:17 EDT 2001
  
  Trend,
  vendaam, u won't like them:)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Mon Oct 22 16:14:52 EDT 2001
  
  KS,
  
  Digression:
  
  Are there a lot?Where did you take all those courses?Perhaps,you could guide me.:)
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Mon Oct 22 16:24:47 EDT 2001
  
  Trend,
  Digression:
  I meant the 2 movies
  
  
• From: KS (@ 165.122.129.199) on: Mon Oct 22 16:25:18 EDT 2001
  
  Trend,
  Digression:
  ayyo!! i meant the 2 movies
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Mon Oct 22 16:31:14 EDT 2001
  
  KS,
  Digression:
  
  Thaangal petra inbam naan pera koodaadhaa?:)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.253) on: Mon Oct 22 16:44:18 EDT 2001
  
  Bharath,
  I dont know how many copies of hEy rAm or siRaichalai were sold. In hEy Ram - the hEy rAm song, isaiyil thodanguthamma, and nee pArtha pArvaikku were very good. That dance song was bad, and other two songs were more situational and I dont expect people to be listening to them 'standalone' - these two go with the movie.
  
  With siRaichAlai - I dont want to argue :) I know all songs were good. Was siRaichaalai released in Hindi and did not do well ? hmm..I dont know. Maybe it is like Jazz and classical music in the US market - totally getting knocked down by popular music so that many classical labels are folding/declaring bankruptcy everyday. Even Sony Classical, is doing movie soundtracks.
  
  (BTW, I think rf is a hard core IR fan. He explains how ARR works and then puts a positive spin on it. He know compares siRaichaalai and lagaan, knowing fully well lagaan is just packaged/marketed well. I think, this is part of a strategy to put ARR in 'proper' perspective :)..BTW, anybody who wants to contest my points should do so directly like Bharath..otherwise just be happy that you made your snide remarks).
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.230) on: Mon Oct 22 17:55:39 EDT 2001
  
  Kiru,
  
  Digression:
  
  I thought I was making a direct remark in my peculiar way.BTW, I admire the way you seamlessly blend two independent events as to make it a cause and effect.
  
  "otherwise just be happy that you made your snide remarks."
  
  To tell you the truth, I'm really afraid to make any direct opposing comments to your posting.I surely cannot match my wit/knowledge with not only you but also persons who share your "viewpoints".
  
  If you were someone else I would have quoted atleast this
  "..knowing fully well lagaan is just packaged/marketed well."
  and asked you whole lot of stupid questions.
  BTW,I think the better sense is to move along with the thread.
  All the above,just my ignorance.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.253) on: Mon Oct 22 18:33:49 EDT 2001
  
  Trend,
  In the future, please ask questions directly. BTW, re: "knowing fully well is just packaged.." I think I should have made it clear, that I suspect this is the view of rf.
  You should not be afraid of anybody or their knowledge. You should only respect them. BTW, I am not knowledgeable as many other fellow DFers here. But I try to understand the basics of music and style of each MD. I think everybody should first try to understand the MD and their music before starting to compare.
  (Anyways..I have spent too much time here today..gotta go)
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Oct 22 20:03:18 EDT 2001
  
  trend: you are something. when you began posting in the df you seemed to be just another arrogant/sarcastic/btard. with age people seem to change, but only the really genuine few hold on (to themselves). you are a remarkable example of the genuine few. where did you take courses on attitude 501, arrogance 601, sarcasm 999? unfortunately, this df seems to be a df on music. otherwise, i would learn a lot from you. (not just me, quite a lot who are not the genuine few). thanks and please keep up the good work. also is there a package 401 course available anywhere (other than at arronline.com or some clones of it)?
  
  
• From: KS (@ 166.44.247.159) on: Mon Oct 22 21:34:35 EDT 2001
  
  vendaam, vendaam...:-)
  
  

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