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Where did Hey Ram and Sirai Chaalai' music fail in relation to the epic Lagaan

Topic started by rf (@ 172.164.126.190) on Sun Oct 21 02:08:51 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Lagaan is a must see, though it did not come from Chennai, it is a must see to understand so many things about what TFM and TFilms in general have missed out in catering to a global audience. An actor who gave us Appoorva Sahotharargal with Ilayaraja Hey Ram was a big mistake and lacking in thinktank. Kamalhasan depended on Hype for that abstract storyline to sell. Sirai Chaalai was too stuffed i believe with elements that it lacked proper perspective and its songs were just ordinary attempts. A period film should have the type of music ARR created for Lagaan. Amazing stuff! (IMHO, Lagaan has become my favorite film in all aspects (screenplay, acting, story, casting and the bgm and songs)while Apoorva Sahotharargal is my second favorite...) I am saying that IR should come out of his mould and look at a world audience in taking up assignments like period films and be open to suggestions/criticisms/information and keep eyes and ears to the ground. IMHO, directors prpoducers are shunning him because audience has changed but IR cares only for Mozart and Bach and not for contemporary ideas. Lagaan is a good lesson for how Marudanayagam's music should be composed. I know HCIRF cannot accept this, it will take time as it took me (SuperFanofIR) to learn.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: velramanan (@ 202.88.154.169) on: Mon Oct 22 03:10:48 EDT 2001
  
  dear cosmician,
  
  ///"all those names you have mentioned above are now the old generation..."///...if you call these people as "old generation", then i wouldn't know whom you are addressing when u say " new generation"...if you had seen the list carefully you would find Hariharan, Yesudoss, Kamal Hassan,Zubin Mehta, Maniratnam, Balamuralikrishna...these are present day legends my dear friend...
  
  ..//"I expected IR to start experimenting with the new vistas opened up by digital technology as well as the changing trends in the world as early as 1985"//...
  
  dear friend, digital technology can only enhance "sound" and not "music"...there is a world of difference between experimenting with "music" and experimenting with "sound". IR is now doing an album that blends "thiruvasagam" and WCM,...it would obviously not be an experiment of sound but it sure will be an experiment in music.
  
  ..//"If massive and complex orchestrations are the only signs of a musical genius..then the computer can definitely be called one"//
  
  i had a hearty laugh...computers can give you a crap mix of sounds...it is childish if you expect "massive, complex orchestrations" from any commercial music tool available today...that needs genius material in your head my dear friend...you think any tom,d*ck & harry can create "how to name it" or "nothing but wind" by using a computer? by using commercial softwares?
  
  i vaguely remember a Filmfare interview by Rehman...he said,"i always mention about ilaiyaraaja in all my interviews. But somehow people prevent it from appearing in the final version that goes to the public. And i am still a family friend of theirs. His inji idupazhagi song is my all time favourite."
  
  ...and ilaiyaraaja said," rehman nalla isai amaikiraar. nalla irukku"....
  
  why are we trying to cry hoarse over this "comparison" trash, when the two legends themselves know each others strengths very well...people like the ones that start such threads are eyeing at gaining cheap attention at the cost of bringing down the legendary names down like rehman & raja....
  
  
• From: velramanan (@ 202.88.154.169) on: Mon Oct 22 03:12:28 EDT 2001
  
  i vaguely remember a Filmfare interview by Rehman...he said,"i always mention about ilaiyaraaja in all my interviews. But somehow people prevent it from appearing in the final version that goes to the public. And i am still a family friend of theirs. His inji idupazhagi song is my all time favourite."
  
  ...and ilaiyaraaja said," rehman nalla isai amaikiraar. nalla irukku"....
  
  why are we trying to cry hoarse over this "comparison" trash, when the two legends themselves know each others strengths very well...people like the ones that start such threads are eyeing at gaining cheap attention at the cost of bringing down the legendary names down like rehman & raja....
  
  
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.25.204) on: Mon Oct 22 03:27:28 EDT 2001
  
  vel ramaNan: please post only once. thx
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Mon Oct 22 03:28:14 EDT 2001
  
  Dear Velaraman..
  
  Is Music not sound ? And please..I am not speaking about only digital technology - I am only saying that it plays a role too and yes I missed out that in 1985 IR should have opened the doors to experimenting with new sounds and genres using digital tech as well....as a matter of fact he has done that to the extent he understood it would be accepted by his audiences. That's it.
  
  And FYI..the names that you have mentioned are the "Older Generation - Living Legends" who are still trying to appear youthful and maintain their status quo - the people you have mentioned should by now have groomed many talents from the younger generation..instead of which they are still busy trying to make hay while the sun shines....this point is just an offhand remark and this is not the forum (if anybody feels to reply ) to discuss it...
  
  
• From: pardhu (@ 202.54.26.125) on: Mon Oct 22 04:15:13 EDT 2001
  
  IR has to change if he wants to satisfy the younger generation.
  It is his volition, to change or not to.
  ARR TOOK OFF WHERE RAAJA LEFT.
  WESTERN CLASSICAL+DISCO MUSIC OF 70'S AND 80'S +
  CARNATIC = IR MUSIC
  WESTERN POP + 21ST CENTURY SOUNDS + CARNATIC
  = ARR'S MUSIC.
  BOTH ARE GREAT. ISN'T IT ??
  
  
• From: velramanan (@ 202.88.154.169) on: Mon Oct 22 05:30:04 EDT 2001
  
  well said pardhu...
  
  MS, i would take care of that :-)
  
  
• From: WhyNot (@ 203.24.100.131) on: Mon Oct 22 08:54:02 EDT 2001
  
  I don't know why everyone is condemning IR so much for Hey Ram. Did you guys hear the Kamal interview on Sun TV sometime ago (maybe in Aug?) When asked abt IR's music for Hey Ram, he admitted tat he had got someone else to direct the music for the movie (he did not name who). After making some songs and shooting the scenes for the song, the MD left due to 'karuthu verupaadu'. So Kamal said he approached his good friend, IR to compose music where the other guy left off. So, to enable Kamal to use the same footage he had shot for the original MD's music, but not being able to use the original MD's music for obvious reasons, IR had to compose music wit the same beat, and whatnot so tat Kamal could use his original film footages for the songs. Kamal likened IR to some magician (whose name I forget) who can come out of a locked chest even with his hands and legs tied up. He called him pure genius. And eventhough I hated Hey Ram songs (except Nee Partha Parvai), when i watched the movie, the music blended so well with the story. It was just so suitable. It wasn't bad at all. And just for the record, I am a ARR fan and I am not making any statements on whether Hey Ram is better than Lagaan, etc. I'm jus saying Hey Ram music was not all tat much a failure.
  
  
• From: yaaro (@ 195.93.49.164) on: Mon Oct 22 10:33:07 EDT 2001
  
  //If massive and complex orchestrations are the only signs of a musical genius..then the computer can definitely be called one"//
  
  dear cosmician,
  complex orchestrations have been around for centuries-computers that are capable of doing those jobs have been around for 10 years?and remember, it is not the computer that does the composing.i dont know what was your line of thinking when you typed out this statement.
  and complex orchestrations are a sign of musical genius.you have to listen to all those instruments in your mind-and write it down-and the end product has to be acceptable to all.if that was so easy why are not many people doing them?
  the ones you have mentioned and pooh poohed as old generation-we know them for their vidhwath in music-dont their opinions count?
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 22 11:43:08 EDT 2001
  
  MS,
  
  in the closeness with which i have followed your posts in "raaga of songs" thread. I have come to believe that you do have a strong logic b4 you actually commit something on the thread. I also dont think believing "kaalapaani has a strong screenplay" is a zero merit thought.
  
  But I disagree with the screenplay , especially taken in 3 languages, having 70-80% resemblence with "great escape" & "escape from alcatraz". Mohanlal a doctor who is part clint eastwood is a very cinematic character. prabhu is reduced to "janakaraaj" proportions (quoting ananda vikatan) in a failing attempt to imitate his counterpart in great escape.
  
  From a hindi perspective which is what the topic of this thread I belive indirectly indicates, i think the movie is a disaster
  
  1)Malayalam narration is again to interweaved. if you see lagaan its so simple . I think you need "konaar notes" for siraichaalai, hey ram and iruvar (the last 2 being my fav. movies)
  
  2) Tabu is not a directors ideal solution for a "hindi face who acts well and so is language independent". that myth is wrong. she really looks like a 40 yr old woman in some scenes.
  
  3) I am sorry! priyadarshan sometimes after all expectations is ordinary. (did u see snehithiye?)
  
  4) you have no idea...what puts off a hindi audience.. the camera lighting to the way in which dialogues are rendered ..
  
  P.S : I am assuming this movie was liked by south audience and so I stuck to the hindi perpective bcoz thats what i happened to watch.
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 22 11:58:12 EDT 2001
  
  Yaaro,
  
  1 important thing if you notice in the 3 movies under discussion .
  
  1) lagaan was a south MD working to satisfy a north director
  
  2) the other 2 was a south MD for a south directors trying to guess "this is what a hindi audience would like"
  
  there is a strong difference between the two and IMO the bigesst difference
  
  About IR and wcm:
  
  I can almost feel your passion towards IR. its extremely infectious :-) but No ! sorry...I have a different explanation.
  
  IR, fortuitously or not, has grasped the fundametals of wcm very well and has become an exponent of that trade.. his inhenrent knowledge of CM also has given him a platform to learn new things and churn inspiring (not "inspired" :) )music.
  
  But the down side: When a producer or director to the likes of Kamalhaasan, BR or MR (if that happens) approach him and fire's him up for awe inspiring music.. doing what ever it takes to fire up IR. IR has developed a natural inclination to resort to "wcm & carnautic" fused complex music to respond to challenges.
  
  That apparently is his box which he is unable to think out of.
  
  He may have been the more complete musician...and covered 80% of what it takes to be a complete musician... but unfortunately hfm and the current tfm is now in the other 20 %.
  
  As for most people in IR's case also "too much knowledge is IR's ignorance " ( i repeat ). His knowledge interferes with the comman mans request so much that he HAS to think this current day music is trite..much like the way you think my friend.
  
  Unfortunately IR will never make it big in hfm.. their preferences are stronger than ours and that is the sad truth you will have to live with
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Mon Oct 22 11:59:51 EDT 2001
  
  I would also like to point out "Iruvar" as a failed product. To sort of introduce a new twist in this thread.
  
  ARR has also failed in his first attempt. And that too in his home turn. why? or did the music sell very well? If so, who said siraichaali and hey didnt sell?
  
  

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