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Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on: Tue Nov 17 18:47:17 EST 1998
  
  Nandu:
  
  You are absolutely right. Infact the tune 'Veerapandi kottayile" is the same as "Ottam Konda Raasave" from IR's Pagilil oru Iravu released in 1980.
  
  Also, have you guys listened to the songs "Baby" from Kali, a IR movie in mid 80s and "sinorita" (especially the starting music) from Johnny...Maybe people should just listen to these music before fantacizing about ARR influencing IR. IR has travelled such vast array of music over the past 20 years that none of this are new.
  
  My hypothesis is that ARR follows just one particular style and does not waver out of this style and hence somehow it gets branded as he invented that style.
  
  Whereas Raja does Folk, Carnatic based, Hindutsani based, Western based with the same flair and does so much variety even within a same time period. Hence, when they see Raja do something the relatively new listeners think Raja is influenced by ARR.
  
  Anyway, I was almost floored when someone in this thread wrote India 24 hrs was influenced by ARR's music (these guys call others fanatics). Go back and listen to those compositions..show me someone else who can compose like that..for example the last piece which weaves carnatic music and hindustani music into western based!
  
  My thoughts on these as I have expressed before are, if you do not want to listen to IR please dont..but why do guys have the compulsion to denigrate him like this?
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Tue Nov 17 18:56:35 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep:
  If your postings had included statements regarding how IR is now becoming more professional, how IR is now using more electronic gadgetry and how IR is coming with more rythimic beats with simple, catchy tunes, you would have been speaking of ARR's influence on IR.
  
  Look at it this way - IR is the subject here. He has changed his style of composing after a certain date (say sometime 1992). Why ? Because one Mr.ARR has shown that people expect something different. What was that ? Professionalism ? Ok fine. But how do you say it ?
  
  Eg.,
  
  "MDs were not very professional in their dealings before ARR came on the scene.
  
  IR was unprofessional and used to compose for any movie without considering it's effect on his career.
  
  But now IR along with other MDs takes care to see that his songs are properly portrayed (or maybe, you might want to say that IR has to realise that his songs have to be better portrayed, and for this he can follow the example set by ARR).
  
  MDs did not consider perfecting a song note by note. ARR has show them that it has to be done, and he has also shown them how it can be done."
  
  ....and so on and so forth. These are legitimate observations. But if you go around claiming that IR was a simple genius and that he didn't know how to do this or how to do that and had to learn from ARR, that becomes an explicit critique of IR's music which would naturally be outside the scope of this topic.
  
  BTW, I have activated a topic called "Creativity of ARR". You might find that to your liking - Happy Posting :-)
  
  
• From: Nirupama (@ mut-53-0591.direct.ca) on: Tue Nov 17 19:54:28 EST 1998
  
  The meaning for the term, "Professionalism" is still not very clear here. I just think that it's a wrong choice of word to describe a change in the 'attitude' of the MDs. Am I right Pradeep??
  
  Pradeep:
  Please don't try to brush off others' views by simply stating they're all IR fanatics. First of all, who isn't, huh??:-)) You probably admire him to a greater level as well. Same goes for ARR. Every one of us here have some regard for ARR (maybe in varying degrees, that's all!). I usually don't take part in discussions concerning ARR & IR simply because of all these misunderstandings. The reason I thought I should respond here is because I felt that you have simplified IR's contributions too much and had an idea that ARR is the best thing that happened to TFM. At least, that's what I thought you wanted to say. So, don't let this thread bother you in any way, and please feel free voice your thoughts in the other threads as well. Like Srinath said, we would love to hear your very different yet interesting views on TFM!!
  Now I will let the others take this thread in the right path.
  
  Srinath:
  What happened to you?? Your style of writing has changed so much!! Is it due to the "Politeness & this DF" thread?:-)))
  
  
• From: Pradeep (@ slip129-37-159-78.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Tue Nov 17 21:05:31 EST 1998
  
  Guys I have posted a note on the Thread discussing ARR's creativity as Srinath wanted me to. U might want to check it out as I have made some interesting observations which are relevant to this topic as well.
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ ntws212.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Nov 17 21:44:19 EST 1998
  
  Sorry for the aside, but here is an observation:
  
  It is interesting to observe that although ARR is so popular in India, its certainly IR who is most popular in the DF. That I thinks speaks for itself, because I expect that the people who frequent here are attentive listeners with a deep enough interest in music.
  
  Of course some people will say ARR fans are not present in large numbers here because of the bashing he receives, but hey, I think even IR receives sufficient bashing out here.
  
  Sorry once again for digressing but it was a thought and I wanted to share it.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ spider-tq023.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Nov 17 22:54:03 EST 1998
  
  Nirupama:
  Pradeep's postings were filled with a naivete that even he probably does not recognize. I simply could not get upset with someone so oblivious to the 'dangers of criticizing IR in the DF' :-)))) Some others take on an adversarial attitude and then I bare my fangs :-))) I, for one, would consider Pradeep the luckiest ARR fan in the DF. I am sure the other ARR fans who have suffered worse fates at the hands of IR fanatics would agree !!! But I guess the "Politeness..." thread took some of the sting out of me for a while there :-)))
  
  
• From: Pradeep Ananth (@ slip129-37-159-217.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 18 11:13:47 EST 1998
  
  Srinaths posting makes me wonder as to whether he is an "IR" guy or "IRA" guy.Attention-Interpol!
  LOL. BTW I had come up with this Windows/UNix comparison of IR and ARR and had only one response. How about a Structured programming/Object Oriented programming comparison for IR/ARR. NO! I dont want to compare both of them. I just want to know if ARR has influenced TFM the same way as OO programming affected the programming world. I feel so! Any takers????
  Maybe I shall delve deeper if there are any takers
  cheers
  
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss01.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Nov 18 11:35:24 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep Ananth:
  Perhaps you are not aware...ARR already has a reputation for multiple-inheritance in the DF :-))))
  
  
• From: Nirupama (@ mut-53-0628.direct.ca) on: Wed Nov 18 12:51:57 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep:
  How about not comparing both of them?:-))) It will get you nowhere and in the process you might actually lose your mind:-)) Just a friendly advice!!!
  
  Srinath:
  See what you've done!! Now Pradeep thinks that whatever he says will be accepted by our DFers:-)) Poor guy, he didn't get the 'warning' he deserves to roam around in the DF.
  
  
• From: Pradeep ananth (@ slip129-37-161-218.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 18 12:56:03 EST 1998
  
  Come On! Nirupama! There's no fun otherwise!
  
  
• From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.28.15) on: Wed Nov 18 13:12:41 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep, Did you see the fate of Radha in the "where is IR heading" thread ?. Please do it soon as it is about to vanish soon.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss03.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Nov 18 13:47:11 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep:
  Your defense of ARR is badly required in another thread ! I'll try to revive that too for you. Good luck ! This time you are really going to need it :-)))
  
  Nirupama:
  I tried cautioning him with my very first posting :-))) There seems to be a lull in the anti-ARR campaigning here. Therefore, there are no strong rebuttals :-) Why not enjoy the break as long as it lasts. Already Velaiyaththavan has started his Velai.
  
  Velaiyeththavan:
  Such open threats are not appreciated by anybody. There is nothing to feel proud about in the way that Radha was treated though Radha's comments were as bad as they come.
  
  
• From: Srinivas (@ pup36.stanford.edu) on: Wed Nov 18 14:58:26 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep :
  If you are so keen on software analogies, I will only compare IR with "C" - Reason being -this is the lnguage most stud software incl. UNIX :-)) is written in. Likewise, most talented composers choose to imbibe IR's style into their composition - with a few notable exceptions.
  
  
• From: Pradeep Ananth (@ slip129-37-153-70.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Wed Nov 18 16:47:48 EST 1998
  
  One big change IMO which ARR brought into TFM-No one dare deny this- is that he broke the image that MDs are like Gods. In spite of all his brilliance IR was never "cool" about it. He used to have an air of superiority and portrayed a larger-than-life attitude. Maybe that endeared me more to ARR who, as a person, managed to break this myth or aura with his "Ella pugazhum iraivanukke" attitude toward all praise and glory.
  His attitude was like saying - "Hey! I am just as ordinary as any other guy who wakes up in the morning, works thru the day, gets his salary at the end of the month etc. I just happen to have some specialized skills, but I am still as much a human as anybody else is."
  I am not sure as to how much this attitude had a psychological impact on IR though, but it definitely brought the common man closer to the intricacies of music composition. In a way it helped him understand the complexity of music and appreciate it better. When IR composed songs even if u thought it was good u couldn't possibly say why. With the advent of ARR people started talking about rhythm-based compositions, rap,reggae etc. etc. They no longer remain some musical mumbo-jumbo ununderstandable to a common listener. In short ARR's influence on TFM has been to bring in an increased awareness about music and its related intricacies.
  
  

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