Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Great Impact of ARR on Indian contemporary Music and IsaiGnani

Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-we053.proxy.aol.com) on Thu Nov 12 02:16:07 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

By now we must appreciate the positive qualities of ARR's musical genre or style and interpretations. ARR has single handendly made film music and that too, Tamil film music one of the most favorite discussion topics anywhere. He reengineered or turned around the concept of film music in India and made it a pop culture. Though there is something left to be desired in his creativity, he has forever changed the landscape of Indian film music. Taking it to a different platform, he has escaped comparisons and stands at the heap of a new generation of musical presentation and thought. I feel glad that ARR happened at the right time to Indian films. Otherwise look what might have happened to Isaignani, who probably would've lost the inspiration to stay around. ARR's has woken up IR from his classical mode and made IR change mode to a trendy style, eg: KM and MVU, each filmy score of IR getting more experimental and in tune with current taste for music. In other words, I personally thank ARR for being the EYES AND EARS OF IR. New rhythms, extremely different melodic structures. etc.. In addition, ARR is gaining on to be the next icon of music in Indian film music, maybe not in Tamil film music, however. This is what we need. New persectives, a 360 degree difference in styles. In this thread, it will be beneficial to talk about how ARR brought in new things that made us wonder why didn't our other composers attempt this, so easy, so out there, why didn't they. And,difficult innovations that challenged even IR. This will discussion should be purely to discuss the impact of ARR's contributions and his impact on IR's creative styles.

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Tue Nov 17 12:53:15 EST 1998
  
  All this talk about 'layered music' has me *ROTFL* ... :-)))
  
  As periyAr said 'vengAyam'!
  
  pAtha perisA irukkum
  urichA oNNumEyillE
  
  That's layered music.
  
  
• From: Nirupama (@ mut-53-0245.direct.ca) on: Tue Nov 17 13:39:54 EST 1998
  
  I had problems accessing the internet yesterday, and now I'm wondering if I'm too late with my comments. Anyway, here it goes...
  
  Pradeep Ananth:
  I'm sorry but I have to disagree with most of your views here. Starting from your definition of 'Professionalism' - (let's just go by your description that it is a term which means high quality & innovations) I don't see how IR does not fit into this description. His music in the 70s & 80s especially were full of new surprises, innovations & creative outbursts. If you're saying that just because of the amount of time ARR spends on each album, he is a better professional, I can't help it but think how naive you are. For instance, let's take two students who are preparing for an exam. One studies for months and the other just takes a week to review the material. Both pass out with flying colours. Can we say that one was a better student than the other? Even if we did you'll know who will be known as the 'brilliant' one. I've read that most of the producers & directors who have worked with ARR complain about delays in his production.
  
  Regarding technological advancements in music, although it is not a substitute for good music, there is no doubt that IR is one of the pioneers in introducing some new techniques in that area as well. (Digital recording in 'Priya'). BTW, Manam Virumbuthe Unnai is a new album produced by IR. There is a song by the same name which was composed by Deva for 'Nerukku Naer". I can see that you're also not keeping track of IR's latest releases. Check it out, he is just as amazing as he used to be. Even in this time of fast-paced, loud music, IR still brings every one of his albums to the spotlight with his brand of music.
  
  Sorry for misinterpreting your words about folk music. So, I understand that you don't like the use of slang in lyrics. Tell me, do you prefer to listen to hindi, punjabi, and english lyrics instead.? If you can attribute the coloquilalism in lyrics to IR, then you can also say the same thing for ARR for encouraging the use of foreign languages in present day lyrics. What's worse is the pain we have to take to understand his singers!! Oh no, thanks to you now I've digressed too much from the topic. This topic is endless and I hope that your admiration for Rahman will not keep you away from admiring the beauty of others' music as well.
  
  Nitin:
  I'm only interested in finding out 'Rahmanesque' songs composed by IR. Another bangra type of song that comes to my mind is the song "Mona Lisa" from Mr. Romeo.
  
  
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ surfec011.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 17 14:00:28 EST 1998
  
  I just want to dispel the misconception that using computers/electronic keyboards means being more 'musically creative'.
  
  I have a CD 'A meeting by the River' by Ry Cooder and VM Bhatt. It has Ry Cooder on slide guitar, his son on dumbek, VM Bhatt on Mohana Vina and another guy on tabla. Just 4 guys sitting on a persian rug in a big church/cathedral and playing. This CD won the Grammy for world music !!!!
  
  So all that computers and electronic dont mean a thing if you are not introducing a new music style.
  
  IR's forte is using western classical music to add the richness of the local melody. Just that he has not given much thought to packaging his product in good CD/tape/recording etc (which ARR might have woken him up to it).
  
  Moreover since IR uses western classical he needs a very big orchestra etc for it to really have an effect. Also, he uses mainly the violin, I guess, because this is a familiar instrument for the local people.
  
  The only influence of ARR I see in IR is that now he does not fade his orchestra to the background when the vocal come on. We have to understand if IR had not done this earlier it would have been difficult to listen to these songs on the radio. AM mono radio will not have the separation needed to listen to such songs. Now that we have TV (FM quality audio) and fancy tape recorders/audio systems it is okay to record like ARR.
  
  
• From: kiruba (@ surfec011.sybase.com) on: Tue Nov 17 14:04:58 EST 1998
  
  Just saw Nandu's post about making IR play live vs ARR. A very good point Nandu. ARR seems to equalise his music to boost the bass and treble (usually boosted bass and treble is the preconfigured setting on music systems for POP).
  
  So if IR plays live it will be fantastic. ARR - I dont think so.
  
  
• From: Pradeep (@ slip129-37-153-146.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Tue Nov 17 14:10:50 EST 1998
  
  One thing I can say for sure!
  IMO people in the DF are IR fanatics and I seem to be the lone warrior defending ARR style of music. LOL! I reiterate that ARR is a more professional MD than IR. Nirupama's analogy of two students studying for different lengths of time for the same exam doesn't really capture the ARR-IR style comparison. Here both have different question papers. ARR's question-papers demand long answers and so it takes a longer time to answer them(these question papers are set by ARR himself.He makes the questions difficult every time.) I understand that I am getting more and more abstract. I can see u guys raising your eyebrows.But then to understand ARR kind of music thats the kind of mindset u got to have. "People are resistant to change"-thats a law of nature-I can see it happening.
  And when all those people come up with comments like "this comment is childish,naive,blah-blah", I cant help being reminded of I dont know who's famous quote-"Child is the father of Man"(Wordsworth?)
  P.S: Nirupama-Thanks for informing me about MAnam Virumbuthe unnai. The problem is that IR's movies do not receive even half the hype associated with ARR's movies that I dont get to know what he is doing. Thats again an aspect of professionalism-marketing music.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss02.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Tue Nov 17 16:29:05 EST 1998
  
  Pradeep:
  This is precisely what I meant by heartburn. The discussion has again veered towards an IR vs ARR debate. I can understand that you have certain very valid points to make as far as ARR's talents are concerned. But I don't think this is the right topic for it. Let me check the archives and see if I can find a relevant topic that has already been discussed. What you are quoting are newer, interesting perspectives towards ARR's music making, AFAIK. Your contributions can be more effective if they are posted in the right topics. Again if it is comparisions that interest you I am pretty sure that there are several threads in the archives comparing MSV and IR and ARR and Chandrabose and Deva and Kallarai Babu !!! You can also search for them from the DF opening page or the Archives link.
  
  And, personally, I think Nirupama's analogy was closer to the point than yours - simply because it assumed the output to be equal from both sides. But, IMO, it is still outside the scope of this topic.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ ss02.nc.us.ibm.com) on: Tue Nov 17 16:44:27 EST 1998
  
  Let me try to clarify/reiterate "The Fan"'s intentions when he/she started this thread -
  
  Has has ARR affected IR's style of composing music? If yes, how ?
  
  Whether ARR is more professional or has more computers than IR does not answer the above question. Perhaps, we can continue the discussion by taking a popular IR song from the post-Rahman period and point out the places where ARR's influence can be seen. I think this is closer to what "The Fan" expected when he/she started this topic.
  
  Pradeep, I hope you understand that by talking about how IR was "A" and how ARR made him "B" has nothing to do with the topic. IR's previous style cannot be compared to his present style. So, without trying to point out deficiencies in IR's pre-ARR style, try to point out only where IR has followed ARR's example. IR's pre-ARR/post-MSV period was the Golden Era of TFM according to some and was the beginning of the end of TFM for others and a stop-gap between MSV and ARR for yet others. Therefore, it would make sense only to talk about the overlapping period between ARR and IR - which is '92 till date.
  
  I just felt I had to clarify what was within the topic as I have claimed that some of the stuff here is 'outside' the topic.
  
  
• From: Nandu (@ piinbh1.ms.com) on: Tue Nov 17 17:26:48 EST 1998
  
  Srinath: Thanks for putting this discussion back on track. I really don't understand why people in the forum make almost every discussion a duel between ARR's fans and
  IR's fans. IR and ARR have their own styles and as lovers of TFM we must welcome both their styles. I have always pondered over the fact that TFM lovers just
  cannot encourage two different styles of music at the same time. I really cannot understand why? Talking about ARR's influence on IR one influence that I can see in
  IR is that the quality of recording of his songs have taken a giant leap. MVU is a classic example of what I am trying to point out here. Further IR always used to give
  atleast one DAPPA song per movie. I can see that coming down. He is turning more and more towards electronic music which IMHO is both good and bad. While we
  really get to enjoy this new facet of IR sometimes I also tend to miss his old style of music. It is not that he was not capable of producing this kind of music earlier but it
  was just that he finds the need to do it now more than ever before. Here I would like to point out that I can see a lot of IR's traces in ARR's music. For example to me
  Thiruda Thiruda seemed very much an IR inspired album. For eg Veerapandi Kottaiyile had the same kind of format as that of Rakamma Kayai Thattu and Pootham
  pudu bhoomi vendum seems very much like IR's western classical compositions. Further many orchestra interludes in songs remind me so much of IR. BUT I would like
  to see IR's influence in ARR as far as RE-recording goes (BGM). ARR is just not upto the mark. I guess many of you guys would agree that great musicians are those
  who can reflect emotions in their music. Take for example the re-recording in movies like tik..tik..tik. I remember once sequence in which Kamal gets temted to go to
  swapna's house. Her torn visiting card lies on his bed and Kamal tries his best to assemble the torn pieces. The Re-recording piece just reflects the mood of the
  sequence. Further in the song "Ithu oru Nila kAlam" from the same movie the second music interlude will just reflect the massage sequence in the movie. I just cannot
  draw the same parells in ARR's music. But I would like ARR to concentrate on this aspect of his music. Talking about classical compositions (I am referring to
  Caranatic music based compositions here!) I find some holes in ARR's music. For eq. in Gentleman in the second music interlude of the song "Enn Veetu Thothail" ARR
  drifts into Hamsadvani when the song is in Neelambari. I don't think that was deliberate. For if he wanted to provide a Ragamalika why would he mix two similar based
  ragas? I can say the same with Malargale in "MR Romeo"...traces of Saranga in his saraswati. Finally IR is like old wine....he can only improve. But I would like more
  of IR's influence on ARR...I gues it would make him more complete.
  
  
• From: Pradeep (@ slip129-37-150-196.on.ca.ibm.net) on: Tue Nov 17 17:34:19 EST 1998
  
  Srinath!
  If I am right I had mentioned the induction of "professionalism" into the field of music was ARR's biggest influence on TFM and I dont see any reason why one would consider it out of the scope of this topic. People interpreted this observation of mine to be one that makes look IR one rung below ARR. So this is definitely a valid topic to discuss in this thread IMO.
  And Why wouldn't the talk on excessive usage of digital gadgets be relevant to this topic!!!!!?
  Well all along people have been looking at the influences I have enumerated as paeans to ARR and as if I have tried to degrade IR with those observations. Thats not my fault!!
  Layered music, Brave innovations, New types of voices unheard of in TFM etc. are definitely a hallmark of ARR. That doesn't mean that IR had none of them.
  This is getting more and more interesting guys!Keep it going!
  cheers
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments