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Has IR ever been inspired by ARR?

Topic started by a TFM fan (@ 64.20.155.69) on Sat Feb 24 00:29:01 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi Guys,
I was listening songs from Nilave Mugam Kaattu by IR.

Music for the 1st and 2nd stanza of the song "suttraathe boomi thaaye" sounded similar to "enai kaanavilaye" song from Kaathal Thesam.

Personally i like both songs. If there are any such inspirations - let's discuss.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Music4ever (@ 165.121.136.103) on: Mon May 5 21:23:04 EDT 2003
  
  Anbe Sivam, you say that the tune of ottagatha kattikko is original. I am having doubts about the originality part after hearing the aboorva sagodharargal song.
  
  
• From: C~P (@ 202.9.181.208) on: Tue May 6 00:41:04 EDT 2003
  
  sabesan,
  ya i managed to hear it atlast! .... and yeah there are some similarities.....i dunno which part to poitn out in particular,the resemblences are here and there,now and then
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 68.155.220.211) on: Tue May 6 06:06:48 EDT 2003
  
  C~P - yes..... that's what i felt when i heard the "kollaiyile" song first..... probably just an inspiration.....
  
  
• From: C~P (@ 202.9.148.191) on: Wed May 7 09:57:02 EDT 2003
  
  sabesan,
  yeah mayb....btw....i after listening to the song i felt that there is a very similar IR song.....i havent heard the one u mentioned though....any other thing which u can recollect?
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 208.192.214.6) on: Wed May 7 10:06:22 EDT 2003
  
  nopes C~P..... the only song that i could recollect - and that too an exact ditto, is the one i had mentioned... i forgot the movie for this song - "Veetukoru Maaganaai Polaaa".... was it Chaakalathi ?
  
  
• From: C~P (@ 202.9.180.39) on: Wed May 7 12:24:51 EDT 2003
  
  sabesan,
  i have no idea abt that....btw just listen to that BGM again from the 51st second ....doesnt this sound like the starting of some other song??
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ 172.147.4.181) on: Thu May 8 16:24:23 EDT 2003
  
  Re: Ottagatta Kattikko
  
  I've noticed that ARR has used that 7 syllable tune quite a few times:
  
  Ottagatta Kattiko
  Nee Sirichaa Deewana, Kai Kodutha Mastana (Halla Gulla song from "Bombay")
  
  I've heard it a few other places too. Is this a pattern or just some stupidity on my part? :-)
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Mon May 12 13:03:06 EDT 2003
  
  I remember hearing the tune of 'Ottagatha kattiko' sometime in Kerala , long back.Iam not able to place it exactly.
  
  
• From: Music4ever (@ 165.121.134.73) on: Tue May 13 19:13:25 EDT 2003
  
  Recently IR has been inspired by himself! Listen to the Manasellam song that goes Ilaya nadhi and it will remind you of the famous ninaivellam nitya song that goes Nee-dhane endhan ponn vasandham pudhu raja vaazhkai naaLai un sondham.
  
  
• From: purv (@ 205.231.151.66) on: Tue May 13 21:41:19 EDT 2003
  
  Yep, that's most likely because 'Neethaane' and 'Iniya Nadhi' are both set in Madhyamavathi raagam.
  
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Wed May 14 10:56:20 EDT 2003
  
  Purv, 'Iniyanadhi' sounds like Sudhadhanyasi to me where as 'Nee thaane' is Madhyamavathy
  
  
• From: Deepak (@ 61.11.82.9) on: Wed May 14 11:20:25 EDT 2003
  
  There was one song where I've noticed a similarity between an IR song and an ARR song. The IR song is "Dappanguthu Pattukkoru..." from Thalaimurai... It had faint shades of charanam from "Rangeela Re.." song. May be inspiration, but my guess is that it's just coincidence.
  
  
• From: Music4ever (@ 130.111.58.78) on: Wed May 14 13:16:46 EDT 2003
  
  Here is my contribution for the day! Listen to the Lagaan song Radha ne kaisa jale or something like that. Asha Bhosle, I believe, has sung that song. There is a flute interlude which goes like "koo, ku ku koo". This is definitely a stark reminder that IR is a legend (for those who don't still agree, that is!), as that flute piece is probably inspired from a song in the BR movie (forget the name, it had Bagyaraj and Rathi Agnihotri) which goes "Vaan mEgangalE vaazhthungal paadungal, naan indru kandu kondEn raamanai". In that song the following piece occurs: "Koo ku ku koo, kuyil paadum oasai *** kandEn". What do you folks think?
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.130.219) on: Thu May 15 00:02:48 EDT 2003
  
  Music4ever, the movie is Pudhiya Varpugal. Someone pls get that song fassssssst and confirm if its true!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
  
• From: Arrohara (@ 65.176.169.177) on: Thu May 15 00:38:33 EDT 2003
  
  Ever since ARR hit the scene, IR woke up to fresher orchestration styles eg: SIngaravelna, Veera. Seems like he seemed relieved at having competition. Look at the Rajanodu Rani Endhan.. from Sathi Leelavathi and Raasaiyaa songs in 1993, way way ahead of all known musical thoughts for me. Phenomenal jump in presentation styles of IR since 1993, maybe the symphony exercise gave him newer perspectives. All credit goes to ManiRathnam and ARR for challenging IR.
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.130.219) on: Thu May 15 04:00:06 EDT 2003
  
  John O Hara: rather it was the break from Ramarajan stuff post 91 that saw the new IR :) Seriously! Singaravelan was pre-ARR. In fact he hit a purple patch from 90-94, majority of which were pre-ARR.
  If you are talking about Chinnathambi, Thalapathi, Nadodi Thendral, Arangetram, Capt Prabakaran, Vanna*2 Pookal, Guna, Mannan, all these were pre-ARR. Post ARR goodies were Ejamaan, Veera, Ponnumani, Sathi Leelavathi - certainly lesser in no.
  
  
• From: Music4ever (@ 165.121.140.155) on: Thu May 15 08:38:46 EDT 2003
  
  Prabhu I think it is true, but it is a very small flute piece in that Hindi song, before the first or the second paragraph, and the rest is not imitated from the puthiya vaarpugal song.
  
  
• From: k (@ 198.85.99.225) on: Thu May 15 09:23:14 EDT 2003
  
  Post 92 IR albums (not mentioned above) which were scintillating were: Devar Magan, Chinna Gownder, Athma, Aranmanai Kili, Uzhaipalli, Valli, Rajakumaran, Oru Oorile oru Rajakumari, Pattu Padavaa, Pattu Vadhyar, Siraichalai, Avatharam, Kadhalukku Mariyadhai, Kaasi, Azhagi, Bharathi, Julie Ganapathy - Add to this, malyalam movies, Yatra Mozhi, Guru and India 24 Hrs . (I have only listed albums where there is a consensus that these were great albums - I could list a lot more during post 92 which were great and went unnoticed)
  
  If you just consider the above list, contrary to the popular perceptions, it has been a very productive tenure for IR.
  
  I would think if one could step beyond the hype created and rationally analyze the output of other composers during the same period, I would be surpised if they had such a productive period. But it may be tough for those clouded by hype to even recognize and they may continue to engage in mails like above undermining the contributions of IR post 92 to suit thier story and present them as facts when they are not.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Prabhu (@ 203.124.130.219) on: Thu May 15 10:16:14 EDT 2003
  
  "I would think if one could step beyond the hype created and rationally analyze the output of other composers during the same period, I would be surpised if they had such a productive period"<<
  
  Dead right,k, and the other factor is that post-93 a new generation had set in terms of movie cast, most of the lead actors of the 80s gave way to newcomers, so that was a prime reason the movies you mentioned didnt get enough mileage.
  
  Which is why despite his 'alleged musical obituary' in 92, he was good enough to spin out National award winners in 99-2K1.
  
  
• From: mythila (@ 137.237.13.20) on: Thu May 15 11:45:30 EDT 2003
  
  Please add my favorite Time, Friends, Poonthotam,KannukulNilavu, Yezhumalaiyan mahimai, KadhalKavidhai, Devathai and recent Ramana and SollaMarandha kadhai ,also to your list K.They may or may not be commercial hits. But they sure whet any melody lover's appetite
  
  
• From: k i r u (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Thu May 15 14:08:42 EDT 2003
  
  After ARR, IR started total electronic orchestration for songs. This I consider a bad influence :). At the same time, new percussion instruments were experimented with and tabla is not seen that prominently. The good influence though is that he conscientiously tried to bring in new sandhams, especially shorter catchy ones (maybe not that good) (eg. kadhalukku mariyadhai). Strict, tight orchestration was not followed in certain occasions (rjay thinks vandhe mataram in bharathi belongs to this category).
  Right now, I think, total electronic orchestration, is not done anymore and only electronic drum kits are used. But the major positive thing is - IR has started integrating WCM much more than before into very good melodies (like in enna solli paduvatho, the trend started in time, lajja). If these songs become a hit (I think they are) we can see IR becoming more enthusiastic (as he likes WCM) and producing much more quality hit songs.
  
  
• From: Whatever (@ 203.177.64.116) on: Sun May 18 07:31:46 EDT 2003
  
  Mythila:
  
  Suddha Dhanyasi and Madhyamavathi differ only by a fraction of one swaram - an over-simplification I must admit.
  
  SD uses a Ga which is marginally higher than the Ri of MM. The other swaras Ma, Pa, Ni are the same.
  
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ 12.46.179.254) on: Fri May 23 09:21:49 EDT 2003
  
  Unlike in the past IR doesn't use too many local musicians these days (is what I heard 3 years back) just as ARR does. That has shrunk the market for violinists, horn players, guitarists and drummers. ARR started the unhealthy trend of hiring best of class performers to do sessions work. In the West in popular music it is the other way round - Eric Clapton played for the Beatles, When my guitar gently weeps and Taxman). Sessions musicians are better than musicians from popular bands and often play the most difficult stuff during recordings; which is why live performances by big-name groups are sometimes a let down. While listeners got to hear substantially better solos and ensembles with ARR's music than they did in IR's time a number of local musicians have fallen on hard times or altogether gotten out of the profession. If you compare the Raga-Jazz piece in Raja Paarvai with ARR's themes in Fire, Taal, Bombay the clearly superior quality of orchestration and musicianship in ARR's music is apparent. This is the consequence of using better musicians. This is not a reflection on IR's music only on its performance. He did the best he could with the tools available. Now you have a few musicians doing most of the work. For instance Neil Mukherjee from Calcutta (a good friend of mine) has moved to Madras a qualified classical and flamenco guitarist works with ARR and VS. And since with ARR the musician does not merely play out notes but has to improvise; Neil gets to work while a routine guitarist who has playing notes for years will find it difficult to work with ARR.
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Mon May 26 06:19:44 EDT 2003
  
  Pennathur:
  
  Thanks for this interesting info.
  
  
  

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