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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Eire.V (@ mayo.ee.qub.ac.uk) on: Thu Jun 8 13:27:32 EDT 2000
  
  S se
  
  IR orchestration is simple.. low budget film ke simple orchestration...
  .... don't expect hundred violin's played for a grammiar scene.
  Did you listen to Hey Ram.. yes is what you called a music with
  orchestration.
  
  ARR ..orchestration... rompa tuuro ma... Avere only knows mixing
  music and ceate a few tune. Tenali movie ke ARR will re-make from
  old composition.. KS Ravi .. thevatha pa onnuku.
  
  Bless S se you
  
  
• From: Hoo Hoo:))) (@ 207.82.165.100) on: Thu Jun 8 15:34:46 EDT 2000
  
  RajaG, yaara ippo vambukku izhuththings ? :))))
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.211) on: Thu Jun 8 16:03:10 EDT 2000
  
  vambaa? naanaa? ayyOppaa! naan saadhu! vaaila finger chips kuduththaa kooda saappida theriyaadha pachchiLam baalagan naan:-))))
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ esboaah.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Thu Jun 8 16:07:56 EDT 2000
  
  IR Orchestration simple? Ayyo kadavule! give these guys some buddhi!! Music a pathi konjam kathukkongapa! All i can say is listen to good music and develop
  your knowledge. The point of ur arguments are like some kid's!!
  
  
• From: hari (@ 206.138.46.177) on: Thu Jun 8 16:54:57 EDT 2000
  
  Guys: IR and ARR are 2 sides of a Coin when you see one you cant see the other.
  
  Comparing musicians is BAD. Each musician has his own style. The question will be which musician can appeal the listner the MOST.
  
  At one point of time it was MSV then IR and now ARR (Popular MD's). It's a cycle. Sometime in the future we will have some one else.
  
  Of course there is one major difference between IR and ARR. IR is arrogant while ARR and MSV are not. Arrogance never ever paid a MUSICIAN/ARTIST.
  
  
• From: ISAI PAITHIAYAM/BAGYA (@ trichy-d1.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Thu Jun 8 17:49:09 EDT 2000
  
  Hi IR-ARR FANS!Ungalukku indha music pithanin anbu
  vendukoll.u r all comparing both IR and ARR in contemporary versions- If u consider that IR had
  done yeoman service to use maximum no of melakarthaie., parent ragas in tfm world u have to
  appreciate him-As he has rendered 40 Thai ragas in
  tfm- which no otherMD had used.Also his tunes from films of early 70s (Annakkili, vizhiyile kalandadu in Bhuvana oru?,to the later 80s hits
  and 90s hits require atleast 50 years of study in
  future/.Also the THENRAL VANDHU THEENDUMPODU in
  AVATHARAMset in JONPURI ragam with SYMPHONICAL
  Orchestration -BEETHOVEN -2 IS a classical example
  of our MASTERO's unmitigated acumen in bringing
  classical Carnatic with fusion of Western Classical in a most acceptability for a pamaran!
  u can add to latest Heyram-a classical Sindhu bairavi in western scale!
  ARR IS ANOTHER MD WITH ORIGINALITY IN TFM- All his
  detractors should realise the fact that he is the
  most sought after MD-(AFTER IR has eclipsed)- and
  he has also a lot of classicals in TFM in his own
  way- in fact his judicious combining of ragas in a
  single line of a song in a most appealing way can't be even copied by our great copy master - oh
  devane, ennai manniyngal! naan track mari vitten!
  But only his classical songs r listenable- like
  Kadhal Rojave-n ROJA(KAPI with DESH humming), and
  his real classical songs from Sangamam will last long- Dear ARR fans, can u patiently hear Chikku
  bukku-chikku bukku rayile' today and enjoy? His songs in all classical/western versions r master-
  pieces-
  But why this great IR or ARR r not no 1 in tfm field- instead a hi-tech recordist/dubbist is crowned as no1 MD in filmdom? Are IR and ARR paying for being original in compositions? So fans
  of both GREAT MDs- kindly stop your quarrel in this 2 SCHOOLS and bring any one of these two great MDS.- "YETHO OODHARA SANGAI OOTHITTEN- APPURAM UNGA ISHTAM..PA..."
  ISAI PAITHIYAM.
  
  
• From: amalraj (@ m36.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Jun 9 08:56:52 EDT 2000
  
  film:sethu
  scene climax,
  hai guys just tell me any music director who would have transfered atleast 1% of the symphathy which IR did thro 'vaarthai thavarivitai'
  hail hail illayaraja
  
  
• From: Sugrutha (@ 1cust235.tnt2.rahway.nj.da.uu.net) on: Sat Jun 10 12:16:33 EDT 2000
  
  IR scores BGM well for scenes involving pathos, we all know. But have you noticed his BGM for comedy. Especially MMKR. In another film, I dont recall the name, there is this guy getting beaten up (part of comedy) and IR has given it this riotous percussion background. I am sure he has a great sense of humour.
  
  
• From: s arun (@ hide195.nhs.uk) on: Sat Jun 10 22:11:33 EDT 2000
  
  Dear MR. HARI,
  
  You refer to IR as being arrogant(in comparision to ARR/MSV) in your thread above. This sounds to be a case of simple pure prejudice.
  
  Could you kindly eloborate?
  
  Shower us all with your WISDOM please.
  
  
• From: pennathur (@ ) on: Sun Sep 17 00:29:41 EDT 2000
  
  Anand from Bangalore has it right. IR's classical compositions are nothing much to write home about. Sindhu Bhairavi was definitely the worst. Raja is too influenced by Western classical (it's great in its own right) But lacks the spontaenity that is so characteirstic of Indian classical music. And that's where ARR scores over. ARR has been a performing artiste on stage running his electric jazz band for years. The jazz style of ARR is more suited to Indian music.
  
  Raaja is definitely second best in Indian Classical compositions to the great KVM, and the entire bunch of guys from Kerala. IR has never produced a Paattum Naane (like KVM) or a brilliant series like in HH Abdullah.
  
  And yes IR is a fabulous guitarist. And so is ARR a great keyboardist - with his first performance on Chennai DD at ther age of eight. Yes I saw it guys.
  
  ARR is more into complex patterns a-la Liszt, Kodaly, Debussey and others. IR is more of a romantic with Mozart, Bach and Beethoveen.
  
  Now I know this is too much for IR fans who know little else but their deity's music. In fact the problem with IR is not his his music - but his fans who blidly lapped up everything that their man served them. ARR's fans are more critical of him and that's the reason he produces such superlative stuff.
  
  And IR compared to Mozart, Bach!!!!!!!!!!! Gimme a break guys. Mozart composed his first sonata at 6, a symphony at 12 and an opera at 14.
  
  Go get out and listen to some Wagner, Franck and you will know where IR lifts his interludes from!!
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ 64.160.53.219) on: Sun Sep 17 11:49:40 EDT 2000
  
  pennathur, man u r a funny guy..... lots of LOL..... Sindhu Bhairavi was definitely the worst.... ohooooo.... dei kanna pennathur real LOL man, real LOL.... before asking others to go and listen to music u do it first my buddy....
  
  
  
• From: :-) (@ 154.5.13.123) on: Sun Sep 17 12:22:13 EDT 2000
  
  Pennathu(r) Pennathur.
  
  
• From: vanavil (@ 210.212.251.55) on: Sun Sep 17 13:10:31 EDT 2000
  
  aiya pennathur,
  Konjam pathu sollurathu. Sindhu bhairavi worst-a? So what is good music for u? U mean too say that arr is better than IR. if so u should be half-witted regarding music. Before uttering somethink rubbish think twice. And most importantly dont try to make remarks in areas that are foreign to u like music. Mind ur language
  
  
• From: vanavil (@ 210.212.251.55) on: Sun Sep 17 13:19:11 EDT 2000
  
  Pennathur,
  I think u r crossing ur limits. In one of ur threads u have mentioned that the title Isaignani is some thing IR himself has given to him. Mind u, the title was conferred to him by none other than our own CM Mr.Kalaingar at a function held in karaikudi in the year 1989. Dont bluff. U seem to be a simpleton. Go get the history first. Stop making ugly and intensional, provocative utterences. Enough is Enough.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.140) on: Sun Sep 17 23:32:06 EDT 2000
  
  "IR's classical compositions are nothing much to write home about"
  ..."Raaja is definitely second best in Indian Classical compositions to the great KVM"
  
  Contradiction, is Pennathur thy name?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.23.185) on: Mon Sep 18 02:14:51 EDT 2000
  
  pennaththur:
  
  I have almost stopped answering the posts which come with the theme of anti -- arr or anti --IR. But, sometimes when persons seem to write with content, I get enthused.
  
  "Anand from Bangalore has it right. IR's classical compositions are nothing much to write home about. Sindhu Bhairavi was definitely the worst."
  
  yeah - that was absolutely right. His worst ever song was "mari mari ninne" and the worst singer I have heard for delivering film carnatic is KJY. Chithra's song which won the award seemingly is the only song with absolutely rubbish usage of saaramathi.
  
  "Raaja is definitely second best in Indian Classical compositions to the great KVM, and the entire bunch of guys from Kerala. IR has never produced a Paattum Naane (like KVM) or a brilliant series like in HH Abdullah."
  
  the song "isai arasi" was probably the worst from him. There are other songs like "mazaikkoru dhEvanE", "pazamuthir cholai" , "gankkaikkarai mannadi" which killed the raga to such an extent that it could be revivved only by puff daddy.
  
  Mozart composed @ 6 but bach did not. So bach was inferior to mozart.
  
  And I also say "all the crows are white".
  
  Thx
  
  
• From: arun (@ 202.54.89.249) on: Mon Sep 18 04:26:40 EDT 2000
  
  who said their are a few anti arr. Many anti arr's are their .Infact IR has more fans here than any body. I don,t consider Arr as a Composer, rather a Sound Engineer
  
  

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