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TFM MD'S musical approach and recording technqs

Topic started by UV (@ 138.88.107.150) on Sun Feb 3 14:58:08 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Here we will discuss constructively about the various trends in compsoing,recording techniqs,methods that existed,adopted,tried and being introduced by all our MDS with major focus IR nd ARR followed by others.
Hopefully those who read the postings will get an idea about Music making and thats its an art of the highest creativity of human mind.
And not mere digital gadgetry or synth music

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.173.9.74) on: Fri Feb 22 00:53:03 EST 2002
  
  Well..well..I thought I understood Srikanth when he was talking about harmony and chorus. Now, everything is just going over my head. Anyways, now that swamiji has given the midi to go with the notes, maybe I will try to follow what you guys are talking about.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ 151.201.226.96) on: Fri Feb 22 07:39:33 EST 2002
  
  Kiru,
  it is very simple, we were discussing about Suspended chords in a song. some of the suspended chords have the same note combination, Sam asked how to choose the right one , i explained me, meanwhile swamiji confused himself with sustain and suspended and gave hard core theory to explain what he meant, I told him to give samples instead, i expected him take some ir songs he knows, but he took Richard marks song.
  
  but You got confused by now what we were discussing about.
  
  review this now:
  i posted sams question once again here.
  
  Asus4 has (A, D, E) with A in the root, and again DSus2 has the same notes (D, E, A) with D in the root. (they are same in notes formation however inversions are different)
  So how does one decide to go for one of these two chords?
  For eg, in Adhisayama thirumanam (PP), the main melody starts on A, but the harmony is given on D and E notes in a pitch lower than the A note. So shud i go for Asus4 or Dsus2? Or does this matter at all which chord i go for? Please let me know
  
  M answer
  There are 12 in each of sus2 & sus4 making 24 in total however, only 12 of them are independent or different. Suspended chords are called “logical” relatives. Sound wise there might be very slight difference hardcore-trained purists can identify them. For most (including me) when heard guess is either one of them.
  
  Now as composer which one to choose
  My view is I choose based on what the bass note is, if I I compose an A in my bass note, I will choose Asus4, If it is D blindly I play a Dsus
  
  sus4 is = 1 4 5 (instead of 3 5 we use 4th note )
  sus2 is = 1 2 5 (like wise instead of 3rd we use 2nd note)
  
  finally, Why the heck it is called suspended, 3rd note has been suspended from the chord.
  
  Hope you and others get our conversation. :)
  
  
• From: PF Fan (@ 199.43.48.21) on: Fri Feb 22 08:28:09 EST 2002
  
  Srikanth:
  
  You have 1 Pfloyd fan here.. Please explain with a song..
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: y ?? (@ 148.87.1.171) on: Fri Feb 22 12:53:48 EST 2002
  
  one more floyd fan .. please go on ..
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Fri Feb 22 14:09:11 EST 2002
  
  Srikanth:
  
  There is no "sustain" chord. I was thinking suspended, but I wrote sustain.
  Anyways, what I wrote was not to bog you down with theory, but just to tell you that "suspended" doesnt apply to harmony (at least in my opinion) - but it is a concept of melody. The chord becomes suspended because the dissonant note(the 4th) is delayed for a bit on the strong beat before it reaches the harmonic tone. Once again, it is the dissonant note's delay which makes it suspended, and not the chord itself. The word means - delay, postpone etc...
  
  >> So how does one decide to go for one of these two chords?
  
  Ok, this question is different. When two chords have the same notes but different spelling, we can choose any name, but it is a good idea to look at the previous and following chord. For example, Am7 and C6 have same notes, so when the following chord is D, I will write it as Am7 - D, and not C6 - D. Reason, Am7 functions as a dominant chord where the 7th resolves to the third note of D. C-6 functions like a tonic there...
  
  Back to the question - when it comes to suspended chords, I choose the same name of the next chord . For example, when chords go like ASus4 to A, I wouldnt write it as DSus2 to A - because the dissonant note in that case is D and not E.
  
  
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Fri Feb 22 14:23:57 EST 2002
  
  it would be difficult not to find a pink floyd fan (among indians) unless some one hasn't heard them at all :-).
  
  swamiji: you should share your expertise more often here. thanks for you posts and please keep continue.
  
  srikanth: good ones man. keep the discussion going.
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 160.231.5.137) on: Fri Feb 22 14:50:39 EST 2002
  
  Detour Ahead...
  
  Let's Suspend the Sustained Confusion:-))
  
  Sam and Srikanth,
  
  it was nice that information is shared...
  musically some of us have been learning/practicing some good concepts
  - studying in our respective music schools
  - discussing/reading on internet.
  What's the Authenticity here? Somebody makes a mistake and get it corrected by somebody...Whose thing should be taken as the right one - this is a big question for somebody who's silently watching and trying to learn things right.
  
  Thanks to everybody who's sharing their Knowledge.
  
  This thread has discussed some of the good topics...Keep it Going.
  
  Regards,
  Aditya
  
  
• From: raja m (@ 199.43.48.22) on: Fri Feb 22 14:57:48 EST 2002
  
  Arul:
  
  Why that statement (Indians :-)
  
  
  
• From: Sam (@ 132.235.18.15) on: Fri Feb 22 19:05:56 EST 2002
  
  "Let's Suspend the Sustained Confusion:-))" Nice humor Aditya.
  
  Srikanth i sent u a mail.
  
  By the way, cud u guys also talk about how our MD's harmonise(d) for a raagam? Do they stick to the notes specific to the raagam for the harmony part also or do they take some lenience? I think in Kannum kannum, the harmony singers stick to the notes of the reaagam used (I dont think I hear the Ni (Note E, if we take C scale) sound by the harmony singers. What are the harmony notes for the line "Poovai Vandu Kollaiadithal", (G is one note, other notes??).Please clarify me. Thanks.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Fri Feb 22 22:46:09 EST 2002
  
  raja m: i am yet to see an indian who has heard pink floyd say that she/he didn't like them!
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 195.229.241.242) on: Sun Feb 24 02:37:31 EST 2002
  
  To the masters in the thread,
  
  I have been following this thread but have nothing much to contribute. I follow Carnatic music but have no clue about western notes/chords.
  Can I request u guys to keep the explanations with Indian notes (if possible & applicable) ? Unless somebody feels otherwise.
  
  Please note that this is a request. if this cannot be done, ignore it.
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Feb 25 19:53:25 EST 2002
  
  srini: in very simple terms i am going to try to descibe the basics; i am not an expert and hence please verify with the jAmbavAns like srikanth, swamiji, isairasigai, ... .
  
  chord is basically three (or more) notes (swarams) playing at the time. the simplest chord is the chord with its root note (AdhAra swaram - there is no such term in carnatic music; think of it as the note that defines the chord) plus the major third note and the fifth note. ex., sa - ga3 - pa (as in shankarAbharaNam). note the frequency ratio (interval) between the sa and ga3 and ga3 and pa. when you invert this you get the minor chord, i.e., sa - ga2 - pa. you can easily identify the major (sa - ga3 - pa(root note sa); ma1 - dha2 - sa(root note ma1); pa - ni3 - ri2(root note pa)) and minor (sa - ga2 - pa; ri2 - ma1 - dha; find out the rest for yourself) chords. one names the chord using the root note and the intervals like I major (sa - ga3 - pa), IV minor (ma1 - dha1 - sa), ...
  
  The point to note is that the sadjam can be anything - C, D, F, ... . If the sadjam were F and the chord were IV minor, this chord is the same as B minor (B - D - F#). So one could just say B minor or if the shruthi/key/sadjam is known to be F, one could say IV minor.
  
  Take the minor chord (sa - ga1 - pa) and reduce to the pa to its nearest lower note (ma2): you got a diminished chord (sa - ga1 - ma2) (B-D-F will then be B diminihsed.)
  
  These three are the most basic and chords: major, minor; diminished.
  
  There are few more (simple = triad = chords containing just three notes) chords like the suspended, augmented. swamiji explained the suspended in the last posting. augmentation basically mean increasing a note to its nearest higher note (ri1 to ri2, ga1 to ga2, ...) if i understand correctly, if someone just says an augmented chord, it refers to the major chord with the panchaman raised to the dha1 (sa - ga3 - dha1). (experts: please confirm). otherwise one mentions what note is augmented.
  
  one could construct chords with more than three notes in which case the added notes are all also mentioned. ex., Fmaj7 (F major and the seventh note from the root note of F major ,E).
  
  some terminology:
  
  sadjamam = tonic;
  panchamam = dominant;
  madhyaman = sub-dominant;
  gandharam = mediant;
  dhaivatham = sub-mediant;
  rishabham = supertonic;
  nishadham = leading tone.
  
  hope this helps. for other commonly used terms like counterpoint, harmony, motion, modulation, mode, ... i will leave it to others :-)
  
  
• From: Krishnamurthy (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Mon Feb 25 21:12:52 EST 2002
  
  hihi, you did a fine job. I was going to tell Srini that it is impossible to explain harmony with carnatic notes, but u seem to have got around that limitation ;) But still, it is better to do this with western terms. Of course, theres many things that carnatic terms is best suited for - like modes (or scales).
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Mon Feb 25 22:02:59 EST 2002
  
  swamiji: thanks. i try my best :-)
  
  
• From: Srini (@ 194.170.1.132) on: Tue Feb 26 05:20:58 EST 2002
  
  hi hi,
  
  Thanks a ton for ur effort. I am taking a print out & take it home & figure it our with the violin.
  
  Let me not interrupt the discussion with my two bits.
  
  By the way, any of u guys/girls in Dubai ?
  
  
• From: Aditya (@ 68.60.32.7) on: Tue Feb 26 08:05:36 EST 2002
  
  hihi:-))
  
  Commendable. Explain some more topics as and when an opportunity comes.
  
  - Aditya
  
  
• From: VR (@ 66.188.201.72) on: Wed Feb 27 22:03:29 EST 2002
  
  Sorry to go back to a topic that has been covered... Re Vocal harmony and IR
  
  2 songs that are fabulous: My dear Marthanda.pattanam poranda, and Aduthu Paar (same movie)....Really simple tunes with vocal harmony, but Ir is obviously having fun, the film director likely let him have a free reign since both are not your usual tamil songs..Especially speeding up the voices on Aduthupaar ...fab
  
  Anjali Anjali chord progression is terrific...but on a purist note, sometimes IR uses less than optimal singers so the notes are not perfect, and it is noticeable.. ( i think his kids sang for that)
  
  For vocal harmony the voices have to be perfect..As far as compositions go, Ir is fantastic with vocal harmony
  
  I also like it when he uses the same singer for the harmony:
  
  eg : Edho Mogam Edho Thagam : Janaki
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Feb 27 23:27:21 EST 2002
  
  Guys..I think I did get the idea of a sustained chord. hihi's explanation was educative as well. I would prefer more width than depth in these issues. I think many people do not even know the basics (like me, well..maybe a little).
  
  Re: Aduthu pAr. I think it sounds more like techno music..IR seems to have touched more areas but the nature of TFM is such that you cannot specialise in one thing. In the West, people can afford to do that, as the market is very big.
  
  

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