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Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood

Topic started by Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on Wed Apr 28 08:58:08 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood, viz., Maurice Jarre, Henri Mancini, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Bernstein, John Barry, Alan Sylvistri, Danny Elfman, Ennio Morricone, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer, James Horner and so on

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Fri Jun 4 12:12:24 EDT 2004
  
  Kupps, iam helpless man!. Can some one talk to palanikumar of rakkamma.com and get his permission to host the mp3's there.
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Fri Jun 4 14:01:10 EDT 2004
  
  Folks..Gyan is dropping pearls of wisdom here. Dont let him out of this thread :)
  Here is an example to reinforce one of his points - orchestration taking the limelight away from the singer/moving the 'melodiousness' to the orchestral instruments. If you will notice in this song, the 'melodiousness' is just not in the interludes, it is just there along with the vocals. The example (drum roll please :)) is - sundari kannaal oru cheithi from Dalapathi. An indian melody is full of twists and turn. At every twist or turn, the singer sings some connecting notes/phrases (not lyrics) like ah..aha..(there must be technical term for this, but I am no learned man). Okay, now hear this song, the connecting notes/phrases are played by a flute. If you wanted to sing this song all by yourself (in your bathroom, safe from any stone-throwing listeners :)), you have to sing the flute notes as well. Also, notice, the singers cannot sing this song at a high pitch, not too much. They just have to take it light. The impression of higher pitch is cumulatively added by the accompanying strings.
  
  This is the main difference in listening to IR's melodies from an indian musical point of view. This is more like a sandwich (than an indian meal) but made using indian ingredients (imagine pickles instead of mayonnaise:)) ..you need to bite the whole stack to get the full taste.
  
  One of the main reasons I wanted to write an article on 'How to listen to IR'. Human mind is an interesting device, only when you apply your intellect, sensual pleasures like music, are heightened.
  
  
  
  
• From: prabhudas (@ 140.251.171.216) on: Fri Jun 4 16:51:28 EDT 2004
  
  Osho,
  Sorry I don't have my own website. Thoppus or Sadeesh ( from NJ) can help if they want to host in their servers.
  In cool ( not really cool though..)goose have u tried changing the title of the file? Try not mentioning any western album/composer's name for the file.
  
  Which is the song from "kaakkisattai" u are referring to?
  
  K, can I say " Kaalai nera poonguyil..." of AK kizhakkale is also another example where u cannot continue singing the song without humming the flute notes. Also, are these patterns refer to any particular style, any old MSV songs in similar style? BTW are u taking notes of many of these discussions for your write up , "How to listen to IR"? the very concept of such writeup itself seems very interesting to me, eagerly awaiting for ur writeup.
  
  prabhudas
  
  
• From: Ilayaraaja (@ 212.211.136.33) on: Fri Jun 4 17:28:07 EDT 2004
  
  IIR visits Broadway,Newyork to stage his musical bonanza!
  
  The story Chennai Dreams, Priya a rich girl falls in love with Akash from Poor family.
  
  Intro song to Priya.
  Entha Busuthan PTC ullathan QMC paru, ada Rukmani vandhachu Signalu thanthachu Yeru.
  Audience: Is priya a Les?
  They are getting confused.
  
  Akash intro song.
  Vadi enkappa kalingey, engaakka petha mukka thutey padathey vaya theranthey.
  
  Akash and Priya fall in love.
  Ahan vanduchu Asayil ode vanthen.
  
  Friends bully Akash and Priya.
  Ora vittu oruvanthu kadhal kethal Pannathiga, bebe bebe bebe.
  
  Priyas dad comes to know about the affair.
  Akash: Gundu onnu vechuriken, vedi gundu onnu vechiruken.
  
  Priyas dad: Enkitta modhathey, nan rajathirajanada, vambuku izhukathey nan veerathi veeranada.
  
  Friends convey that Akash's mother passes away in India.
  Akash: Enthayin kovilai kakha maranthitta paviyadi kiley.
  
  Meanwhile priya is engaged to a rich businessman.
  Azhum kadlum azham illa, azham ethu aiyya antha pombala manasu thanya.
  
  A rich producer meets akash in a bar.
  Ora therijukitten ulagam porijukitten producer nalla producer.
  
  Akash becomes a hero.
  Oru nayagan udayamagiran.
  
  Akash meets priyas father.
  Yettana eruntha etuoruku en pattu kekum.
  
  Priyas father: poda poda punnaku podathey tappu kanaku.
  Priya: yamunai atriley era katriley kannan odu nan pada.
  Akash: Yaru Kannan.
  Priya: My rich hubby, a business magnet.
  Akash: Engey sellum intha Padhai.
  
  Curtains.
  
  Audience comments.
  This is trash, the music looks like a peanut dipped in curry, dressed with cowdung powder, and soaked in cows urine.
  Oh, they thought we were animals.
  Thank god our wallets are safe, good thing they paid us to sit for 3 hours.
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Fri Jun 4 19:29:39 EDT 2004
  
  Prabhudas,
  Re: taking notes.. You bet I am. So far I think I have enough material, I just need to find time, to do this write up.
  Re: kaalai nEra from A. K. KizhakkAlE - yes to some extent it is. It is also a 'fill', almost all MDs use fills, but IR uses it in a special way. For example, strings (mass of violins) backing the vocals is age old. But it is very different and I would say very sophisticated in IR's songs. The strings are arranged in parts and they move in different directions and sometime in opposite direction of the main melody (counterpoint). All indian musicians almost can do a variety of tunes, but they all think linearly, ie. the tune just keeps moving forward. But IR is special in that he can think up counter melodies. In a compilation of unfamiliar songs from tamil/telugu/kannada of MDs around the same time it is very easy to spot IR just by listening to the strings. It is this polyphonic and contrapuntal nature of the orchestration that is his trademark. If IR can compose like this, we should be atleast be able to listen and enjoy such things, that is the motivation for the 'How to listen to IR' (and you know I was inspired with this title after reading a book on 'How to listen to Mozart').
  I hope more posters here would come up with more examples, which will help me in this writeup.
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.117.216) on: Sat Jun 5 01:27:55 EDT 2004
  
  From: Note Man (@ 35.9.20.92) on: Sat May 22 14:34:21 EDT 2004
  
  
  Excerpt from the programme of the
  Angelica Festival Internazionale di Musica
  
  " dr. ilaiyaraaja performs live with a rich, mixed, ensemble of 18 elements; his music, besides containing many different musics, can inspire reflections and meditations on the form, on its consume, for an eventual, possible expansion: by showing rare models and formulae, unthinkable for the western music song world or western cinema; it is an open form that is strictly linked to the inspiration of the moment, ready to welcome anything in a surprising structure, enriched by a, still so strong, indian tradition, where rhythm, melody, devotion and surprise travel together; itıs almost like a kaleidoscopic song, full of rules, but also rich in expressive possibilities."
  
  http://www.aaa-angelica.com/
  The site is a bit tricky to navigate. But this can be found under the 2004 edition of the festival.
  
  
  Basically, that newspaper write-up neatly sums up How IR' abilities COMPARE and CONTRAST with known Western systems.
  
  It is an excellnt perspective, from a fresh viewpoint, from people who composed so much but have not experienced this depth, variety and "expansive possibilities" in a 5 minute song
  
  This aspect has been addressed by several dfers of the past, but got stale and point lost because of our excitement, exaggestration and fanatical approach to the topics.
  
  k, i think every dfer should read it many times to understand the significance of each word of the Italian newspaper and on what basis did they say that,etc... On a less serious note ;-----) i;ve done googles for some serius analysis about ARR' music from the foreign press, all they said was Mozart of Madras, swiftly and deftly handled by the western media ;;;---)
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Sat Jun 5 02:42:14 EDT 2004
  
  Prabhudas,
  USe the following link..
  http://alien99.spymac.net/Love_In_Air_Interludes.mp3
  
  Good luck folks, coz i dont know how this will turn up. I'm contemplating with few fellow dfers on hosting the files. Let us see how that turns up.
  
  Gyan, k. It would be really nice for some one to come up with a "How to listen to ir". Have u guys noted that on an average most of his preludes are more than 25 seconds :)
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 203.200.58.136) on: Sat Jun 5 07:47:52 EDT 2004
  
  http://www.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=119859
  
  The first piece is the prelude of the song "Solai poovil" from Vellai Roja - the pacy interlude sets ones pulse racing - the arrangements are classic IR style, with the strings giving us an introduction to the main theme of the song - in fact, if one observes closely, the tune played by the violin can itself be developed into a full-fledged song or an orchestral piece! it is kind of two songs-in-one kind of a feeling!
  
  Then comes the shift in the strings passage, giving us a short theme which is closer to the main tune - in the background, you have the percussion/rhythm which is full of vibrance and polyphony!
  
  the piece that follows is nothing short of brilliant ! a strings section is played with a diluted Bach-IRish style for a few seconds and then comes the piece that can be best described as drops of nectar falling in the ears!
  
  remember, in the movie, the actors (a couple) are drenched in the rain and then take refuge in a small house and the inevitable happens -
  can anyone get into IR's creative mind and understand how the heck he could musically visualise the whole thing and give that piece ?
  
  besides the events that follow the song in the movie include the mysterious death/murder of the girl (Radha) - if you notice very carefully, there definitely is a very very subtle element of suspense/intrigue in the second interlude especially in the 'drops_of_nectar' passage - I cannot put a finger on it - correct me if I am wrong and if anyone feels otherwise
  
  Next follows the second interlude of "o vasantha raja" from Neengal Kaettavai - slightly jazzy, but still takes one to heights of fantasy -the kind of music that I would associate with the title score of the Bond movie "You only live twice" (which has some charming strings passages) or the Boney M classic "Oceans of Fantasy" - this interlude would always evoke a feeling of monsoons somewhere in the hills, but preferably in a posh strata of society - I hope you get what I mean
  
  the next one is the rich interlude of "Sengamalam sirikkudhu" - groovy use of the electric guitar with sounds that only IR is capable of bringing out - and the strings section that follows, elevates the mood of the score and once again can be a tune by itself!
  
  Others are welcome to give their descriptions/narrations of these three 'gems' pieces from IR
  
  
  
• From: cholan (@ 61.11.82.149) on: Mon Jun 7 08:20:36 EDT 2004
  
  IR musics like the sound created from urine passing and shitting.
  ir is shitter.
  
  

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