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Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood

Topic started by Music_lover (@ 202.141.98.226) on Wed Apr 28 08:58:08 EDT 2004.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Compare and Contrast IR's musical style(s), especially with the BGM tracks, with those of composers of Hollywood, viz., Maurice Jarre, Henri Mancini, John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Bernstein, John Barry, Alan Sylvistri, Danny Elfman, Ennio Morricone, Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer, James Horner and so on

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Wed Jun 2 07:00:21 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan, wonderfull posting man. Excellent one.
  
  I have been trying to upload lots of interlude mixes of IR's song and am having real trouble with coolgoose. I dont know why the heck they delete all the mixes. Can some one suggest some other way to upload it (other than coolgoose!!).
  
  
• From: k (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Jun 2 16:38:28 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan,
  I suspected so much. I do get your term of 'melodious' vs 'melodic tunes'. My example would be 'azhagE azhagu' vs 'andhi mazhai'. As I pointed out earlier, IR gives a clue to the classic nature of the song, by usually using a tabla/traditional arrangement.
  I am in violent agreement with all that you have written. Especially your points about how he has taken the 'melodious content' and placed it in the orchestration. One of the reasons, I wanted to write a document on 'How to listen to IR'. If you just listen to the main vocals (indian ears tend to ignore the accompanying sound and sometimes might find it intrusive) alone then one is missing out a lot. The other day, I also observed how when the singers where at medium pitch, the strings in the background were wailing in high. Normally, the singers would have started to move to the higher octaves at that point. It is really great to hear some similar opinions/views and you are full of examples/analogies to complement your vast knowledge.
  
  
  
• From: prabhudas (@ 140.251.159.192) on: Thu Jun 3 07:07:51 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan,
  Great posting, we need more such posting from you with more examples and details. Neenga matha thread vida indha thread kku konjam visit frequent a pannunga...
  Osho,
  I had the same problems with Coolgoose when I was uploading lots of BGM clips, they were making it inaccessible or deleting, I wrote to one of the admin. guys by name "sam", literally saying that those clips are considered some of the greatest treasures in TFM and mentioned there are no official release of any of those BGM clips, then he allowed the accessibility. Still Coolgoose is a pain in the A$$ to upload. Hopefully we (fans) ourselves make an exclusive server/site to exchange the BGM clips of IR soon.
  prabhudas
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 136.182.2.222) on: Thu Jun 3 09:29:05 EDT 2004
  
  Gyan,
  Fantastic posting. As Mr. K has rightly pointed out, we tend to miss out a lot of the music in background while we listen to a song ... One huge reason why a large majority of us cannot appreciate Western Classical Orchaestras ... many simply dont know what to listen to!
  
  Even I was a huge know-nothing till I accidentally stumbled on to newtfmpage a cpla years back ... Now I am awestruck when I listen to our IR's songs ... they are simply too good!
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Thu Jun 3 10:53:44 EDT 2004
  
  Fugue transformation, diatonic , polyphonic, harmony, melody, you name it and IR has it in his countless interludes. Man, o man. The best thing in IR's music is that you constantly learn a lot of things by hearing it. Now i am addicted to his interludes.
  
  Prabhudas, do you have u'r own website where i can host a few mp3's of mix.
  
  
• From: SSSSA (@ 199.90.34.67) on: Thu Jun 3 16:10:37 EDT 2004
  
  In this connection, I recall what one of my friends told me while travelling with IIR. This person is very well known to you all in these columns!!
  He said that they drove all the way to Atlanta from Durham to see PITHAMAHAN and while returning, to spend the time these two played that one song, "vetti vEru vAsam" on the 'repeat' for the entire 8 hour drive to analyze the niceties in that song, which according to one of them is the "ultimate" song!
  Thought I can share this with you all.
  Great work Guys!
  Also, I fully agree with Prabhudas with his request to GYAN to concentrate more HERE than other places! Yesterday I saw GYAN being bashed as a novice[!!]in music by a person in some other thread!
  Does...... know ...... smell!
  There is more work here GYAN. Forget the other places.
  
  
• From: Music_lover (@ 203.195.203.203) on: Thu Jun 3 23:33:44 EDT 2004
  
  Friends - I have just come back after a 4 day tour/stay at a tiny village called Melathiruvengadanathapuram (MTV Puram)(and its neighboruing villages Athhimedu etc), 7kms east of Tirunelveli, Tamil Nadu - after taking part in the inauguration function (attended by around 1000 people from all over the world) of a Distance Education programme in Automobile Engineering, reading and spoken English and Theology, for children from the most poorest families of that area -
  
  it was fascinating stuff listening to 'villuppaattu' performance in rustic style as part of the cultural events - what touched me the most was that in Tirunelveli, IR's classics of the late 70s, 80s and 90s are still being revered, played, listened to and enjoyed -
  
  while at MTV Puram, during an evening stroll after a dip/bath in the river Thamiraparani, I happened to listen to IR's 80s songs in a tea shop while sipping a 'super' cup of coffee ('Annachhi - copy kudinga - supera irukkum' was the inviting suggestion that I couldn't resist!)
  
  IR's contribution to not just film music - but to the grameeya music cannot be equalled!
  
  
• From: Gyan (@ 4.158.114.137) on: Fri Jun 4 02:18:37 EDT 2004
  
  Thanks Osho, k, prabhudas, Srivatsan and Thanks, SSSA!!!!! (I had once met MSV and didn't know what to talk, because those days I was only beginning to understand the beauty of old film songs. I wanted to also have his blessings, anway, avoided the embarrassment and just had his autograph on Ulagam Suttrum Valibhan cassette!!!!! Then I said, I need to understand music before I waste an opporuntity with composers, especially if it is going to be IR!)
  
  However, I sincerely think most old composers are neglected in India. For a cause, schools should arrange to have tete -a - tete for kids with composers of yesteryears. That will come back as healthy memories for all kids.
  
  There are more aspects to be understood about IR' 3 Dimensional Ideas or should I say 4D if with Hollywood level orchestration. One aspect is that IR "sees to it" that his tunes "are such" that they have scope for an exciting bass interplay. That makes it 5D.
  
  1st Dimension. Catchy Tune or Melodious song (which may not need too much emphasis on interludes as IR had admitted that he does not waste time on interludes if he finds the song melodious enough so that the song does not seem too much heaven.)
  
  2. Must have super bass and so very twisty catchy tune (Rojavey Thalattum Thendral)
  
  3. Melodiousness moved to the interludes with atleast two new passages created
  
  4. Rhythms must be complex, different, original in each song
  
  5. Expansive possibilities (Italian article description of IR' music) in the entire song - say can you convert this song into a 4 movement symphony? IR says in his mind, this can be 6 movements, but i have to compose another dozen routine numbers today, so i will not waste time and thus make it 5 movements for people like "Massimmo Simmonini" to work on that in the future)
  
  This is how I think IR has prepared himself before entering film composing.
  
  
• From: Srivatsan (@ 129.188.33.222) on: Fri Jun 4 03:29:32 EDT 2004
  
  IR is the Boss of Bass ... I am totally addicted to his bass notes, they are so structured, so comoplex and so good to hear. I have said this enough numbr of times in a lot of threads, but I cannot stop myself telling it again seeing the fantastic observations of Gyan. :)
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Fri Jun 4 03:42:52 EDT 2004
  
  With all the wonderfull observation of gyan i would like you all to hear a interlude mix. Here's a small description of the interlude mix.
  
  0.0 to 0.19 its interludes from the song Vanithamani. If you had seen the movie, you would remember that a smoking gun is waiting to get kamal and thats where the song starts. The theme starts with a cluster of violins playing and then abruptly ending expressing the gravity of the situation and denotes that the protagonist’s life is endangered.
  
  From 0.39 its out of the world. The violins play a new theme with intermittent cello playing above the existing theme. Listen how flute plays above the existing theme only to find the old theme go to oblivion and a new theme by violin seemingly takes over. (You will forget about the old theme, as you will be immersed with the new one!). From 0.48 to 0.57 it’s Invertible counterpoint. You can either focus on the flute or the violin. Ie, with any of them as upper part. Also hear how a theme is developed and how the theme blends with another theme to make an invertible counterpoint. Brilliantly done. Hallmark of a seasoned WCM composer.
  
  The next interlude mix is from the Kaakki sattai. This is special for any one who wants to learn two-part vocal counterpoint. Listen to both janaki and spb’s vocal interludes there. One merges with another.
  
  The next interlude mix is from the film Idhaya koil. One way to describe, awesome. The mix is the first interlude and the second interlude of the song “Pattu thalaivan”. A few surprises if you hear the interludes. Both the interludes are the same, meaning the notes are the same, the instrument dominant in the first interlude is the guitar while in the second interlude it’s the Sax. For the ending of the first interlude he uses flute to play the notes while the second interlude it’s the guitar. Amazing!!!
  
  Get the song from http://www.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=119824
  
  as soon as possible. I dont know how long its gonna stay there.
  
  
• From: Osho (@ 203.197.136.34) on: Fri Jun 4 05:57:04 EDT 2004
  
  Coolgoose is messy. I guess the above link is not working. Please try the following link
  
  http://www.coolgoose.com/go/song?id=119835
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 192.76.80.74) on: Fri Jun 4 11:29:05 EDT 2004
  
  Osho when i try now both the links are not working. Could something be done for that?
  
  

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