Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

The popular notation used on this page. The twelve notes of an octave are the following.

1   2   3   4   5   6   7  8   9  10  11  12
S  R1  R2  R3  G3  M1  M2  P  D1  D2  D3  N3
       G1  G2                     N1  N2

Download/Upload raga based songs.

"Raga based film songs" Database | Old Database | Indian Classical Music Forum | Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.206.71) on: Thu Jun 13 14:56:04 EDT 2002
  
  MS is very busy - vizhundhu vizhundhu padichings/velai paarthings :-)
  
  
• From: Sundar Atre (@ 130.203.216.54) on: Thu Jun 13 17:05:25 EDT 2002
  
  Maybe instead of teasing MS, if we say some really nice things about him he will want to share his much appreciated expertise with us again. See, there I tried :)
  
  MS ilaada,
  R(O)S yenaagum
  
  .... ooops poem may scare people off
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.200.5.66) on: Thu Jun 13 21:51:50 EDT 2002
  
  IR,Hmm...PunnAgavarALi and Thodi indeed sound different.But it's surprising really,how the prayogams,and Sa alone make the rAgam sound different.
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Fri Jun 14 04:15:32 EDT 2002
  
  ok...here i go once again conpeesan kostin
  
  does the song aen mana vaanil siragai virikkum FROM Kaasi, has any link with hindolam? coz when i sing pada pada pada vaena siragu adikku chinna paravaigaLae(words might not be correct) i tend to sing aNNaththai aendhan nizhal thodumo of naan thaedum sevvandhipoovidhu FROM dharmapaththini, which i presume, read somewhere, as set in hindoLam.
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.26.234) on: Fri Jun 14 04:16:41 EDT 2002
  
  Kupps,
  En mana vanil is Sindu Bairavi IMHO and the other song is Hindolam for sure
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Sat Jun 15 06:13:20 EDT 2002
  
  come weekend, and this thread goes for a toss :-)
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.181.76) on: Sat Jun 15 12:26:12 EDT 2002
  
  come weekend, and this thread goes for a toss :-) >>
  yAm(vettiyA) irukka bhayamEn??!! :-)
  
  en mana vAnil may be adultrated Natabhairavi with the exception of the 1st lines in both the charanams which show Ni3.
  One of the typical prayogams of Sindhubhairavi is PaDa1Ni2SaNi2Da3Ni,which appears only in the pallavi once.And Ri1 is a prominent swaram of SB(in addition to Ri2),which does not appear in the whole song,I think.But,the first time I listened to it,even I instinctively did feel it was Sindhubhairavi,may be due to the above mentioned prayogam.I dunno....on 2nd thoughts,it seems to have more of an SB flavour.....AIMHO.
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.233) on: Sat Jun 15 12:34:13 EDT 2002
  
  ...but surely,nothing to do with HindOLam.
  
  
• From: Ram (@ ) on: Sat Jun 15 13:14:46 EDT 2002
  
  "En kadhaiyai kEttaal ungaL siragugaL thaanai moodikoLLum" clearly shows Sindu Bairavi(That is probably the prayogam our "SB QUEEN" had pointed out)
  
  
• From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Sat Jun 15 17:05:49 EDT 2002
  
  Just a small query: I read that 'nee dhayaraadha' (un dhayavillaya) from the movie 'Sindhu Bhairavi' as one set in the raaga 'kalyaNa vasandham'. I would like to know any other film songs in this raaga. I just fell for its melody!
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.206.71) on: Sat Jun 15 17:33:26 EDT 2002
  
  ec - un dhayavillaya is set in Vasantha Bhairavi.
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.145) on: Sat Jun 15 22:17:12 EDT 2002
  
  Ram,it's not that line,it's the previous one-from en mana till vaNNa paravaigaLe.
  The swarAs r:Ga2PaPa PaPaDa1Ni2SaSa SaSaNiSaSaRi2SaNi2Da2Ni2
  
  
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.26.234) on: Sun Jun 16 00:14:42 EDT 2002
  
  Sindhuja,
  Next line also sounds like a Typical SB(THink of "adaikalam neeyE amma akhilandeshwari" in "Srichakra raaja"
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.182.137) on: Sun Jun 16 09:16:25 EDT 2002
  
  Ram,nA vAya tharakka virumbalai anymore(for obvious reasons) :-(
  
  
• From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Sun Jun 16 09:43:03 EDT 2002
  
  Thanks a lot IR! Is this raaga a rare one? Could you please tell me some other songs, carnatic/tfm in it?!
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.206.71) on: Sun Jun 16 10:30:02 EDT 2002
  
  ec - there are very few popular songs in this raga (I am not sure about any film songs) - but Nee dhayaradha is the most popular song - the other reasonably popular ones include Prasanna Venkateshwaram, Rama RamaNa..
  
  
• From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Sun Jun 16 10:54:21 EDT 2002
  
  Again, thanks IR. I like this song and wanted to know how it is handled in film music. I feel sorry that it is not so popular in the filmdom!
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 203.199.245.241) on: Sun Jun 16 11:45:51 EDT 2002
  
  Kupps,
  
  I feel your grandma is right[Lucky sir neenga, u have an in-house expert :-)]. It is a raagamalika IMHO towards the very end, but am not sure of the ragas. Can u please get your grandma's views on rest of the songs in IVANN? I wud luv to know her opinion especially on 'appadi pakarudhunna venam'...Kalyani'yaa Gamanasrama'vaa? Ri1 usage irukku andha song'la..]
  
  Ram/IR,
  
  Regarding kadhal saadhi songs,
  Nethu Kodutha (thodi, perhaps deviating to the janya 'ahiri', considering the Ga3). There are so many IR songs where raja starts of with a mela and touches so many janyas...Well?
  
  There are two more songs that i feel might fall into this genre..one is 'bommukutty ammavukku aaraaro" and "yedho mogam yedho dhaagam" (latter from film 'kozhi koovudhu'). Both these songs show similar construction pattern as i see it, (similar to the kaadhal saathi song) basically following Sa Ri1 Ga2 Ma1 Pa Dha1 Ni2 Sa. There is the considerable usage of Ga3 & Dha2. ARE THESE TWO SONGS TOO SET IN THODI?!?!?!?. [Its time i revamped my list of ragas...whatdya say Ram...IR, did u get the cue,btw ;-)]
  
  Ok, more guesses on 'Kadhal Saadhi', to add to the chaos :-)
  
  a) Pathiya vittu pirinju - Sindhu Bhairavi
  b) Enna Marandhaalum - Natabhairavi
  c) Anne Anne Vanakkam Potenne - Natabhairavi
  
  Sindhuja :-),
  
  'En mana vaanil' should be Sindhu Bhairavi...IMHO . The feel irukke stronga...
  
  
• From: Sindhuja (@ 203.197.182.202) on: Sun Jun 16 12:27:20 EDT 2002
  
  nA vAya tharakka virumbalai anymore(for obvious reasons) :-(
  
  
• From: Ram (@ 63.161.26.234) on: Sun Jun 16 13:29:50 EDT 2002
  
  Sindhuja,
  In our college the faculties used to call the problem creating people and give them responsibilities to make sure that there wasn't ne problems...antha maathiri ethO strategy la thaan unGaLukku SB Queen nu pattam kuduthu vaaya adaichuttaanga pola irukku:-)...IR neenga bada killaadi:-)
  
  NarayaNa NarayaNa:-)
  
  
• From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Mon Jun 17 04:44:01 EDT 2002
  
  Another doubt, pls help! I feel 'ninnai charaN adaindhen kaNNamma' from 'Bharathi' as hamsanandhi. My knowledge in carnatic music is limited. So will be very happy if my guess is right :-)
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Jun 17 05:03:07 EDT 2002
  
  ec,
  
  Not hamsanandhi, it is Puriya Dhanashree. But u can pat urself for atleast pinning it down to Hamsanandhi :-) (ore oru swarathile miss panniteenga).
  
  Puriya Dhanasri is basically panthuvarali, only differing in usage.
  
  Hamsanandhi - Sa ri1 Ga3 Ma2 Dha2 Ni3 Sa
  
  Panthuvarali - Dha1 instead of Dha2
  
  ec, experts will elaborate on how puriya dhanasree (or poorya dhanashree) differs based on usage, from Panthuvarali (aka Kamavardhini).
  
  
• From: ec :-( (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Mon Jun 17 05:25:20 EDT 2002
  
  Thanks IR-Fan for the nice explanation.
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Jun 17 05:50:33 EDT 2002
  
  :-) ec,
  
  Poorya Dhanasree...
  
  Aarohanam - Ni3 R1 Ga3 Ma2 Pa Dha1 Pa Ni3 Sa Avarohanam - Ri1 Ni3 Dha1 Pa M2 Ri1 Ga3 Ri1 Sa
  
  Poorya Dhanasree (Hindustani) = Kamavardhini/Panthuvarali(Carnatic)...I have also read that some "puriya dhanasree" compositions use both the madhyamams (Ma1 & Ma2). But not sure.
  
  And Poorya (Hindustani) = Hamsanandhi (Carnatic) in carnatic music..
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Mon Jun 17 06:56:56 EDT 2002
  
  experts will elaborate on how puriya dhanasree (or poorya dhanashree) differs based on usage, from Panthuvarali (aka Kamavardhini).
  
  one more thing i need to know. based on the postings i read here and a few places, i thought PanthuvaraLi=Kamavardhini. Last weekend when i visited my hometown, I had a tough fight with my grandma (i know sindhuja and IR_Fan r going to beat me). Still I was not able to push forward my idea (i.e P=K) to her. She says that both are similar but not same some prayoga difference is there. Temporarily I silenced her saying that since she is in her 80s she has forgot a lot. Experts can u please clarify this conpeesan of me also?
  
  
• From: IR_Fan (@ 202.88.152.159) on: Mon Jun 17 08:54:08 EDT 2002
  
  :-)Kupps,
  
  Panthuvarali is perhaps an older name, while Kamavardhini is newer. But naan kelvi patta varai, rendume onnudhaan.
  
  Kashiramakriya is yet another name to Panthuvarali/Kamavardhini, as a trustable web-source points out.
  
  
• From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Mon Jun 17 09:14:21 EDT 2002
  
  IR_Fan, konjam confusion. Athaavathu Poorya Dhanashree (H) = PanthuvaraLi (C)
  Poorya dhanashree (C) =! PanthuvaraaLi (C) considering their prayOgam. Did I get the point correctly?!
  
  I am eagerly looking forward to experts' explanation on how prayOgam causes changes between ragas having the same swaras.
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.64.206.71) on: Mon Jun 17 09:54:32 EDT 2002
  
  As far as the naming goes, there has been a lot of confusion, transformation and evolution. You guys asked for it and don’t blame me if it is technical :-)
  
  The melakartha (sampoorna scheme) name of PanthuvaraLi is kAmavardhini. It is popularly known as PanthuvarALi today and ppl seldom refer to it a kAmavardhini. Kamavardhini used to be commonly referred to as “rAmakriya” prior to the categorization of ragas under a proper melakartha scheme. The asampoorna scheme listed rAmakriya as kAshirAmakriya :-)
  
  To add to the confusion – PanthuvarAli, according to Venkatamahi was the 45th mela – which is commonly known as ShubaPanthuvarALi today!! Again, according to the asampoorna mela scheme, this raga was called Shiva PanthuvarALi. Haiyya super aa confuse paNNIyaachu :-)
  
  But, all of this has changed over the years. As per the current usage,
  
  PanthuvarALi = rAmakriya = kAshirAmakriya = kAmavardhini.
  
  My 2 cents worth on PD vs PV:
  
  Purya Dhanashri's closest Carnatic Equivalent is PanthuvarALi - the ragas take the same notes but the usage is a little different as the styles of singing and composing differ in the 2 forms of music. For all practical purposes, we could say PD = PV. There is not a single Hindhusthani raga which is exactly the same as a Carnatic raga - when they are borrowed from one style to another, they are painted the respective coloring/complexion to suit the style. HIndusthani PD is characterised by long, plain and clear notes where as Carnatic PV has a lot more gamakas. I do not know much about the technical aspects of Hindhusthani style of rendering of PD to point out other differences between the 2 styles. Just by listening to a composition in PD and following that with a compostion in PV, would make you feel that the 2 ragas are identical but for the styles of singing!!! , IMHO
  
  
• From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Mon Jun 17 10:37:58 EDT 2002
  
  nalla cleara confuse aagitten, 2 raagathilayum irukkira paattai kettathaan theLiyumnu ninaikkiren :-)
  IR, thanks for the informative post.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments