Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

What determines whether a melody (tune) is good, great etc.

Topic started by eden (@ 210.214.4.67) on Tue Oct 30 07:35:01 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

We are used to reading in DF that such and such song had a great melody (even I could've posted like that on several occasions). However, while one can say `I like that melody' very much (which can be subjective, related to taste / bias etc.), is there a technical method to "rate" the melody? I expect good participation by techies...

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Wed Oct 31 17:45:28 EST 2001
  
  here is one song i find appealing. I liked "sithagathi pookale" from rajakumaran and " anthiyile vaanam" from a prabhu-kasturi movie..yah! its chinnavar!
  
  
• From: haris (@ 148.87.1.170) on: Wed Oct 31 18:48:34 EST 2001
  
  //all great songs I know have been popular! I dont know of a great song thats not popular among u, me and us!//
  'look love me dear' - simla special, 'nitham nitham'- koottuppuzhukkal, 'arumbagi mottagi' - ramarajan. The above are not popular songs. But they are great songs. ( there are better examples :-) )
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.25.96) on: Wed Oct 31 21:23:32 EST 2001
  
  eden, there are 2 different ways to "rate" a melody that I have seen people do..in the first case, you just sit back and let the music take over you and see what kind of impact it makes on you..you put your analytical skills to rest and just enjoy the music..you are a "natural listener" then..(my personal experience is that I have enjoyed more of IRs songs than anyone else's when I do it this way).and then once you are hooked onto it, you then go about finding what was unique about that number that struck a chord in you..was it a definite melodic pattern, the rhythm etc. etc.if you are not able to spot anything, well, even then you can just listen and enjoy the song numerous times..:-)) nothing prevents you from doing that..this is where it gets highly subjective too..
  
  The other way you rate is, and this is the way many musicians tend to do, albeit involuntarily(even though they claim they listen from the heart:-) ), is look for good sandhams, unique rhythm patterns, unique choral arrangements, scales used etc. etc. and then come to a conclusion. (In this case you might end up appreciating more MSV melodies that you normally do, because of the sandhams and difficult brighas that his songs incorporate)..
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.25.96) on: Wed Oct 31 21:32:02 EST 2001
  
  pl. read "that" as "than" in the last sentence above..
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.91) on: Thu Nov 1 00:38:43 EST 2001
  
  vijay, can you enlighten why `malarE, mounamA' is rated a great melody (what are the technical ingredients that've prompted pundits to call it the best in recent times)
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 192.25.158.12) on: Thu Nov 1 09:48:38 EST 2001
  
  //"'look love me dear' - simla special, 'nitham nitham'- koottuppuzhukkal, 'arumbagi mottagi' - ramarajan. The above are not popular songs. But they are great songs"//
  
  I asked 10 people i know and 8 of them knew this song.. so i guess its(was) popular! :-)
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Thu Nov 1 10:36:47 EST 2001
  
  Bharath,
  
  you are fit to be a journalist of any Indian English Newspaper/weekly ;-)
  
  you asked 10 of whom u know. those 10 might be people like eden, vijay, bharath etc i.e. those fall under category 2 of what vijay said ;-)
  
  you missed atleast a million interested parties like kupps-es, but still generalised your finding and wrote them as "popular" ;-)
  
  to me a melody is one that should make me to:
  1) listen even if it comes from SW2 in my old radio
  
  2) listen during night when im lying down
  
  3) try to make-out/understand the lyrics
  
  4) judge that "see the MD has not accompanied instrumental music equally/more when the song is sung that shows that the MD believes the tune to be good melody and im able to listen so i appreciate it as a good melody".
  
  5) i feel ashamed of myself when i try to sing that song and feel that im killing the tune, coz im not good in singing a flowing song.
  
  6) to forget/mitigate my worries and tension and aids in getting peace.
  
  7) to concentrate and focus on it or aids in doing so in the job im doing.
  
  
  
• From: badri (@ 202.9.180.93) on: Thu Nov 1 10:46:46 EST 2001
  
  if a tune shells a bit of tears in the corner of eye,if your body feels electrifying as tho u r injected,if u feel that u switch of any sound r disturbance is irritating and interupting.....
  were some of the symptoms of melodies listened ,learnt and felt from illairaaja,ARR did make a few of such kinds but not like meastro,hindu r bindu writers r commonman like u and me ,hindu has even failed to identify IR'S laudable works but talked too mush on rahman,immatured knowledge (musical) less people giving ratings is like each tv channel rating films to their wish-cannot b accounted.
  melody is the mind vaxing melody of I.R
  
  
• From: ec (@ 141.14.139.162) on: Thu Nov 1 11:56:39 EST 2001
  
  To me, melodious songs are the ones which can calm the mind, which are clear, meaningful and ofcourse well tuned. I found they cause the same effect even without insturments (provided the singer is not too bad!). They can be sad, convey some philosophy or can describe some emotional state. There are many MSV songs, IR songs and some ARR songs (eg. nila kaikiradhu, anbendra mazahayile,..). I personally like the melodies from MSV because of the lyrics from Kannadasan and feel, a bad lyrics can spoil the melody. (eg macha machiniye, this only comes to my mind at the moment, though it is not a real melody. The tune is good and the lyrics are completely misfit to it)
  
  
• From: raycas (@ 212.186.40.21) on: Thu Nov 1 12:16:24 EST 2001
  
  with 'popular' i meant, all these reviewers who write how damn good a meldody is, give popularity to certain songs...and then they become popular among the people...but there are still songs which the reviewers just 'forgot of'...and those are good as well...only it didn't become popular...
  conclusion: most of the 'great melodious' songs became popular because reviewers made it popular and some didn't...
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Nov 1 12:37:08 EST 2001
  
  eden, hihi..I dont think even andhi mazhai is a great melody. My opnion on this is ..most film songs are not pure/great melodies if you go by the textbook definition of melody. For a popular medium like film music, rhythm is an important ingredient. So the melody is 'broken' to make it more catchy. People like IR have been using harmony/vocal harmony/counter melodies to make up for this. You can see this in andhi mazhai song. Another example is kanmaniyE kadhal enbathu song from 6 - 60 varai. Also, chinna chinna vanna kuyil from mouna rAgam - is it a melody or a rhythm song ? (One of the reasons IR is my fav is because he can give you a rhythm # and make you think it is a great melody :) ..I am not ashamed to be listening to POP music when it is from IR :) ) .
  
  
• From: Karan (@ 212.188.176.99) on: Thu Nov 1 12:40:09 EST 2001
  
  A sign of a good melody is when after the first listen u feel like swaying with the tune, u get a warm glowing feeling inside u!
  
  Velli Mallare!
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.25.96) on: Thu Nov 1 17:17:33 EST 2001
  
  Eden,
  
  per sonally iam not a great fan of the pallavi for the song "malare mounama"..as you(or someone else?) said here the stoppages in the melody make the pallavi difficult to succeed as a standalone..
  the rendition of SPB and SJ is what elevates that songs IMO.
  
  in fact there is an old song "aval oru pachai kuzhaindhai paadum azhagil paruvam pathinaaru.." sung by SPB, PS..in that song if you take the line "kaathal geethangal koil deepangal mela thaalangal vaaaaazhthume".. the notes are pretty much the same as the pallavi of malare mounama. they have just been stretched a little bit by VS..
  
  there have definitely been better melodies from him..also the tempo is a bit too slow for my liking, I would have liked it to be a bit faster..
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.90) on: Fri Nov 2 00:29:41 EST 2001
  
  vijay, nice to see you agreeing with me (& not The Hindu) on malarE...
  
  Kiru, I too do not rate pallavi of andhi mazhai as a great melody. It's catchy thanks to the fusion / rhythm...However, the interludes of this song are just terrific with a strong melody running & so is the saranam.
  
  I came to a general conclusion based on a chronological analysis of Raja's melodies (of course due the high quantity of output, there may be a lot of `exceptions'):
  
  1. He had MSV/KVM like melodies initially (in 70's). Examples are "kaNNan oru kaikkuzhandhai", "orE nAL unai nAn", "en kalyAna vaibOgam" etc. He had rhythmic songs as well which were more popular, starting with `machana partheengalA' `engengo sellum' `sendhoorappoove' etc.
  
  2. With his `melody-compromised-nicely orchestrated-numbers' scoring better, & with KD passing away / VM entering, came the early 80's. 'idhu oru ponmAlai', `iLaya nilA', `andhi mazhai', `idhu oru nilAkkAlam' etc. were roaring hits with this new Raja formula. Obvisouly melody suffered a little bit on pallavis. Raja made up in interludes with great flows (pon mAlaippozhudhu a wonderful example) and the saranams were generally more melodious than pallavis. (In my last analysis of ilaya nilA on melody, I made a great injustice by not mentioning the sweet melody of the concluding guitar piece, probably one of the most enchanting ones to me)
  
  3. With people comparing with the `longevity' of MSV/KVM songs more than IR, I think he had returned to melody again in late 80's when we saw the likes of `sinnakkuyil pAdum' `poovE poochooda vA' `nAnoru sindhu' `EdhOdhO eNNam' & a no. of gramarajan numbers that were melodious. With so much of quantity pouring out of Raja, there was a balance with other kind of numbers as well. `enna satham indha nEram' enjoyed instrumental genius & interludes, for e.g.
  
  4. I think IR was a bit confused in 90's as to whether to continue with such balance or which new trend to set, with pressure from people like MR to westernise (agni*, anjali, dhalapathi). Then ARR came with pure western sounds which swayed the masses & changed the centrestage. But true to his commitment to music, Raja continued / continues with both kind of numbers.
  
  All the above are imho / guess:-))
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.90) on: Fri Nov 2 01:16:47 EST 2001
  
  melody: a definition given @ dictionary.com:
  
  A rhythmical succession of single tones, ranging for the most part within a given key, and so related together as to form a musical whole, having the unity of what is technically called a musical thought, at once pleasing to the ear and characteristic in expression
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Nov 2 11:00:00 EST 2001
  
  Eden..good analysis on IR's approach to melody over a period of time. One of my theories is that I think IR used the pallavi, usually with a new rhythm arrangement, to catch the attention of the masses and then delivered good melody/flow in the interludes and charanams.
  IR and ARR come from two ends of the spectrum. ARR takes tried and tested POP music formula from the west and gives it an Indian/Classical touch. IR takes Indian/Western classical music and tries to give it a POP touch with a rhythm.
  There has been a change in the society which considers native instruments and even proper tamil pronounciation as old-fashioned. This is a baggage IR is stuck with :(.
  
  BTW, in rAja pArvai..you would have liked azhagE azhagu song. Not sure about Bharath :) :)
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments