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Songs discussion

Topic started by Mukund (@ sdwwwgw01.sd.nmp.nokia.com) on Sat Oct 3 20:06:55 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Everyone is pretty bored and fed up with arguing on differences of opinions regarding MDs right ? After all typically, what would we TFMers discuss suppose we meet in person ?. Song discussions right ? So here is the thread.

Idea is someone will introduce a song and we all will discuss about the song, period. Limitation is we will automatically move to another song after 5 days of discussion. ie. anyone contributing to the thread after the first set of 5 days will have to come up with a new song!. Also whoever is starting first can state the ending date of five day period.

Some help from Ravi is required for this until some time for people to really start adhering to this.

BTW why 5 days ?? Obviously to keep the thread fresh and alive !!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: N.C.Ramakrishna (@ 205-144-60.ipt.aol.com) on: Sat Nov 21 01:31:26 EST 1998
  
  Thanks Mukund.
  
  BTW KV is one kind of director who has very different way of telling things. He uses music, expression of artists and lyrics to show the inner meaning of the situation and shows very decently on screen. In this song, JP takes bath and song goes on to show her inner feelings. The most decent way of showing things.
  
  Srinath : Good idea. Hope we can do it from next time. Also we can collect and keep all songs discussed here togather at a place .Somewhere either in TFM or some other place along with description
  
  Murali shankar : I think it is not always possible to write exactly for dubbed songs. Some may be possible some may not be. It depends. I think this was the best that VM could do that time. There will be always a better version for existing ones. We exactly dont know what limitations VM had in this song.
  
  I think if no more additions to this we can go to the next song. Who is starting next? Mukund or you ?
  
  Thanks
  
  
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.26.121) on: Sat Nov 21 02:51:54 EST 1998
  
  Mukund !!
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ usm-0212-58.wans.net) on: Sat Nov 21 03:48:44 EST 1998
  
  Ok I start !
  
  
  Nallathor Veenai seithe athai
  nalangeda
  puzuthiyil erivathundo
  solladi sivasakthi enai
  sudarmigum arivudan padaithuvittai
  
  visaiyuru pandhinai pol
  ullam vendiyapadi sellum
  udal kaetten
  
  nasaiyaru manam kaeten
  nitham navamena sudar tharum uyir kaettum
  dasaiyinai thee chudinum
  siva sakthiyai paadum nal agam kaetten
  asaivaru mathi kaetten
  
  ivai arulvathil unakkaethum thadayulatho!!!!!!!!!!
  
  Of course, the lyrics speak for them. The impact in Bharathiyar's lyrics are unmatched. This is probably why this song was chosen for the film.
  
  If I remember right the situation is when Kamal is in Delhi being a barber (in Varumaiyin niram sigappu) after running away from home in Madras. The problems due to unemployment will have forced him to do this.
  
  Poornam - his father is grief stricken in losing him and coincidentally comes to Delhi to perform this song in a concert.
  
  Lines for the most part fit in so greatly with the situation. But more than that match what was intended perhaps was the emotional impact the song would create.
  
  SPB had done a wonderful job with his singing.
  
  One point about this song I remember vividly is the fact that I will be overwhelmed with emotion and be moved to tears everytime I try to sing the song. Especially when it reaches 'dasayinai thee chudinum' !!
  
  I have also felt that the emotional impact of first lines are by themselves very powerful and if involved with the song will push you to the brink of emotional control.
  
  Now comes 'visaiyuru panthinai pol' which has been tuned in such a way as if one does not have the any more loudness than this to sing having been overcome with emotion. All this happened involuntarily to me and I am trying to read meaning to the happenings.
  
  I may have been inaccurate in the description of the situation so if someone knows better about the situation please come forth with your posting.
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.28.73) on: Sat Nov 21 15:53:53 EST 1998
  
  srinath,
  (I'm back after being out of town for a week!could'nt wait to get back to TFM!) its a good idea to give link to a song before starting to discuss it.in fact i did that sometime back when i started discussing about the song 'unnidam mayangugiren' by KJY as i felt that many here would'nt have listened to that song in a while and it may help to give a link.
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Sat Nov 21 16:25:37 EST 1998
  
  mukund: in fact, the song comes before kamal becomes a barber. the scenes in the song show kamal in the streets, in abject poverty, sridevi being helpless and not knowing kamal's whereabouts and feeling the pain of the lost love, and pUrnam, who slowly realises how much he is missing his son. he is still hopeful though, that his son would have made it big and so on. a hard hitting scene in this song is one where kamal picks up an apple from sewage and eats it. amazing work by KB here.
  the song has these lines also:
  "vallamai thArAyO - indha
  mAnilam payanuRa vAzhvadharkO
  solladi sivasakthi - nilach
  chumaiena vAzhndhidap puriguvaiyO"
  this song effectively showed a shift in the perspective of pUrnam. kamal has a passion towards bharathiyAr's kavidhaigaL, and recites them to pUrnam in any discussion with him. when kamal leaves the house , pUrnam taunts him by saying whether he does not have a bharathiyAr song now. kamal replies "achamillai achaimillai achamenbathillaiyE, ij jakathiluLOrellAm edhirthu ninRa podhilum...". so the usage of bhArathiyAr song by pUrnam effectively showed that pUrnam is missing his son and his bharathiyar kavidhaigaL. this usage was repeated in sindhu bhairavi, when sivakumar sings thamizh songs in memory of suhasini who initiates him into singing in thamizh.
  i consider this film to be one of MSV's gems in his later years. nallathor veenai seithe was there in marupadiyum also, with different lyrics. excellent singing by SJ.
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-84-90.sprint.ca) on: Sat Nov 21 20:58:52 EST 1998
  
  Hi I think that Mouna Mana Neram is great song. But the best time to hear it is night time. The singers input a lot of feeling in the song.
  
  
  *Can we discuss the song "ethaetho ennam valarthean" from punnagai mannan.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ usm-0212-88.wans.net) on: Sun Nov 22 02:41:05 EST 1998
  
  Hi aruvi,
  
  Right now we are discussing "nallathor veenai seithey" . I guess we are not done with discussing as yet.
  
  Once that is over the queue is
  
  1. Murali Sankar - Oh Vennila
  2. aruvi - ethetho ennam valarthen.
  
  Mukund
  
  
• From: aruvi (@ spc-isp-tor-uas-80-11.sprint.ca) on: Sun Nov 22 14:57:44 EST 1998
  
  Isn't this from the movie Marupadyum sung by Janaki. It's the revathi film. Or am I wrong. Are you just comparing a Bharathiar song.
  
  From
  TOTALLY CONFUSED
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Sun Nov 22 16:16:24 EST 1998
  
  aruvi, nallathor veenai seithe is a bharathiyar song. it came in the movie varumaiyin niram sivappu. later, with changed lyrics, it came in marupadiyum sung by SJ.
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.28.18) on: Mon Nov 23 11:32:43 EST 1998
  
  Dear Aruvi,
  
  you are in a way right. The song comes in "marupadiyum' also. But onlu the first four lines (Pallavi) are from Bharathiyar's original version. Others are penned by vaali.
  
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Nov 23 16:09:14 EST 1998
  
  murali, even the first four lines are not the same.
  the ending is "sudar migum arivudan ennaip padaithAi" rather than "sudar migum arivudan padaithuvittAi".
  
  
• From: Mano (@ mail2.site.uottawa.ca) on: Mon Nov 23 22:25:37 EST 1998
  
  Balagi! I like to add one more point. KH wants to live in a certain way, Remember! He wants to be genuine, and PV knows that! Perhaps, that
  why KB chose this song for the situation! Did you realize that another Bharathiyaar song in the movie? Theertha Karaiyiniley
  
  
• From: Mano (@ mail2.site.uottawa.ca) on: Mon Nov 23 22:26:39 EST 1998
  
  Oops! I'm sorry. Typo, It should be Balaji!
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Nov 23 22:38:54 EST 1998
  
  mano, eppadi adhai marakka mudiyum. excellent fit into the situation. especially "vArthai thavari vittAi kannamma, mArbu thudikkudhadi"...
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Tue Nov 24 04:40:59 EST 1998
  
  balaji
  that line was already used by IR in ennadi meenatchi song from ilamai oonjalaadugiradhu. amazing how mahakavi's lines stand unaffected by the passage of time.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ usm-0209-35.wans.net) on: Sat Nov 28 13:53:08 EST 1998
  
  Hi guys,
  
  I just saw the movie "Marupadiyum" yesterday. And the of course I remembered Murali Sankar description of ennalum Nala vazha when seeing the song.
  
  But now coming to "Nallothor veenai" of Marupadiyum, it is of very different lyrics compared to Bharathiar's Nallothor Veenai. Only the first few lines are similar.
  
  But that makes everyone involuntarily compare with the great lyrics of Bharathiar. In fact if the feirst few lines were not similar the song would have been better appreciated I felt.
  
  Good singing be SJ, I felt.
  
  
• From: vj (@ opah.chemengr.ucsb.edu) on: Mon Nov 30 00:51:39 EST 1998
  
  I am hoping you would discuss "thendral vanthu"
  Can you add it to the Q?
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Nov 30 05:32:26 EST 1998
  
  vj,
  is it thenral vandhu ennai thodum ( TE Thodu) or thenral vandhu theendum bOdhu (avadhAram)????
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Nov 30 08:17:48 EST 1998
  
  i would like these songs to be taken up for discussion:
  paruvame - nenjathai killathe
  satti suttadhada - aalayamani
  sinnanchiru vayathil - meendum kokila
  
  any takers?
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Mon Nov 30 08:18:09 EST 1998
  
  i would like any one of these songs to be taken up for discussion:
  paruvame - nenjathai killathe
  satti suttadhada - aalayamani
  sinnanchiru vayathil - meendum kokila
  
  any takers?
  
  
• From: vj (@ opah.chemengr.ucsb.edu) on: Mon Nov 30 14:20:23 EST 1998
  
  hi shankar,
  it is "thendral vanthu theendum bOdhu"...
  one haunting song!
  
  have you been around here for a long time?
  
  
• From: Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.28.14) on: Mon Nov 30 16:31:33 EST 1998
  
  Hai DFers,
  
  Sorry for not being here for so long a period. I am taking the song "Oh Vennila Iru Vaanila " for discussion.
  
  The song: Oh Vennilaa Iru vaanila:
  Lyricist: Vaali
  Film: Kaadhal Dhesam
  Music:ARR
  
  Situation:
  
  Both the friends Vineeth and Abbas come to know that they love the same girl. The song is their reaction to the same.
  
  Discussion:
  
  As a melody I personally rate it as one of the all time greats of ARR.The song starts with a bell sound with the spreading voice of UK filling the appreciative emptiness in the orchestration. It is a tale of two friends - so close that they are unable to vent out their reaction when they come to know about the position thay are in.
  
  "Oh vennila! iru vaanila"
  
  This query type lyric rules out the possiblity of a moon being in two firmaments. I personally feel that Vaali is an unconscious supporter of polygamy (no offense meant for the artist,please). consider the situation in jupiter where many moons can fill the sky. He advocates probably the male chauvinistic attitude in the above lines (which need not necessarily be his). Please try to compare this with
  
  "Oru sooriyan pala thaamarai uravaadinaal paavama?"
  in Vaazhvey maayam. The statement is just a reiteration of the possible support for polygamy. The same poet has carved the lines
  
  "Poomaalai Oar tholil..idhu nyayama"
  of "nalladhor veenai" from marupadiyum. I think the poet is deft in handling situations of these sort.
  
  "KaNNey KaNNey kaadhal seydhai
  Kaadhal ennum poovai neydhai
  NaNban andha poovai koidhaan
  Oh Nenjey nenjey nee en seyvaai"
  
  The lines are very explicit.
  
  "Mazhai neeril vaanam nanayaadhamma
  vizhi neeril poo mugam karayaadhamma"
  
  These lines can be interpreted as follows:
  the cause is unaffected by the consequence. By this I mean that the source (tabu) remains calm after invoking love in the hearts of the sinks(A & V). He seems to say "Unakkena ? Nee kaadhalai en manathil valrththu vittaai! Unakkondrum idhanal kashtam illaiyey ? enakkuth thaan"
  
  "Enai keettu kaadhal varavillaiyay
  Naan solli kaadhal vidavillaiyay
  Marandhaalum nenjam marakkadhamma
  Irandhaalum kaadhal irakkadhamma"
  
  These lines are a "remixed" version of
  
  "Ninaikka therindha manamey unakku marakka theriyaadha ?
  Pazhaga therindha uyirae unakku vilaga theriyaadha"
  
  It is the charanam which deserves more attention:
  
  "Irukkindra idhayam Ondrallava
  enadhalla adhuvum unadhallava
  edhu ketta podhum tharakkodumae
  Uyir kooda unakkai vidak koodumae"
  
  We easily but erroneously interpret these lines as those from a lover to his beloved. But,IMHO, IT IS NOT SO. these lines are from a friend to another.
  "My friend!My body and soul are yours, but not my beloved. I may indulge in immolation for thy sake, but how can I cede my love for my lady ? If I do will it be a relation ,nay, but just another of the material which is inanimate"
  
  this becomes clear in the following lines:
  
  "tharugindra porulaai kaadhal illai
  thandhaaley kaadhal kaadhal illai"
  
  This song is probably the best in terms of lyrics for ARR songs. Another point that can be noted is the interlude. the first interlude is slow in pace possibly indicting some statements of romantic nature. In fact the anupallavi is from a guy to a girl. but the second interlude in violins is faster and this probably tells us the possible roughening of the relation between the two friends. The charanam terminates with him declaring that it is impossible for him to give up gis love. Onoe notable point is that for the song is isotropic. I mean by this that it means tha same when A or V sings.Please pass on the comments
  
  Regards
  
  Murali Sankar
  
  
  
  
• From: Sundar Ramanathan (@ kyle3.mmm.com) on: Mon Nov 30 22:17:29 EST 1998
  
  O veNNilaa, iru vaanilaa ?
  
  good poser to start with
  contrast this with
  
  (naayagan avan oru puRam
  avan viziyil manaivi azagu
  naayagi avaL maRu puRam)
  avaL vaanil irandu nilavu
  
  oru vidukadhai, oru thodarkadhai
  gangai amaran
  
  

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