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Has ARR ever been inspired by IR?

Topic started by Responsible_Critic (@ 160.231.1.20) on Wed Feb 21 17:14:21 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi Guys:

Listen to this Telugu Song composed by IR ( I am not sure if this was dubbed in Tamil ) - it's from Surya IPS. This came in 1990

http://64.81.35.203/songs/SuryaIPS_Hattiri.ram

Listen to the Kadhalan Song by ARR ( I am giving the link to telugu version of it - check the tamil one if you want )

http://64.81.35.203/songs/Premikudu_Andamaina.ram

Let the song start, wait and relax to enjoy the similarities.

If there are any such inspirations - let's discuss.

BTW, this thread is not intended to prove that everybody copies from IR. But just curious...

Responsible Critic

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.225.124.89) on: Tue Mar 20 01:35:22 EST 2001
  
  Kupps,
  Another Excellent Dharmavathi is from the movie Aswamedham song - Yen Debba Theesavura
  
  ARR's Vandi Chola sinna rasu song is HEAVILY inspired from this song from Aswamedham(rather than Meendum Meendum Vaa song)...guys listen this song either at
  1.) RaajaNGAHM - http://www.raajangahm.com/raagas.html
  (Shortcut, click this link to hear the ram from here itself -> http://www.raajangahm.com/real/songs/ashwamedham/yemdebba.ram )
  2.) Ramasamy gireesan's site
  http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/rgireesan/926473588/debba.ram
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Tue Mar 20 10:14:57 EST 2001
  
  Kupps:
  Thanx for this peice of information. You also helped me to get the raaga for "Ottagaththai kattikko" song.
  
  
  As far as my knowledge goes, songs based on same raaga doesn't amount to copying. Does it?
  
  
  My knowledge in CM is just thru listening. I can recollect few raagas based on some popular krithis or film songs. I was just curious as on one day I happened to hear some body saying that "Azhagana Rakshashiye" was copied from "kannan Yennai Azhaikkiran". I maintained that both are based on same raaga. Later, I confermed it also. I was just curios. By the way, can you tell me what is the raaga of "kannan Yennai Azhaikkiran" or "Azhagana Rakshashiye" . I am not able to remember it now. Please...
  
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 166.90.248.158) on: Tue Mar 20 13:31:53 EST 2001
  
  CF,
  Raagam is Reethi gowlai.
  Other Reethi Gowlai Gems of IR are
  1. Raman KAthai Kelungal
  2. Thalaiyai Kunniyum Thaamaraye
  3. Meetatha Oru Veenai
  
  
• From: c (@ 131.230.25.38) on: Tue Mar 20 14:18:14 EST 2001
  
  CF,
  
  a correction : the song in reetigowlai is "chinna kannan azhaikiran", and not kannan ennai azhaikiraan
  
  c
  
  
• From: raagaqn (@ 216.34.244.74) on: Tue Mar 20 14:22:56 EST 2001
  
  digression:
  
  can anyone tell me if "Poongatre konjam" from Friends and "Kuyila pudichi" from Chinnathambi are based on the same raaga?
  
  thanks
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 209.180.243.240) on: Tue Mar 20 20:47:34 EST 2001
  
  raagaqn,
  The right place to ask that Q is in of the permamnet threads meant for Raaga's discussion. You will get an answer immdly there :-)))
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Wed Mar 21 09:35:27 EST 2001
  
  UVII:
  thanx. I was able to recollect it in my home at night. Its a wonderful raaga. But, I don't know whether there are few popular krithis based on this raaga. Thanx anyway.
  
  C:
  Yah. Its "Chinna kannan azhaikkiran". Thanx for you too.
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 166.90.248.158) on: Wed Mar 21 12:14:12 EST 2001
  
  CF,
  U R welcome
  
  
• From: Eswar (@ 153.2.246.12) on: Thu Mar 22 12:08:20 EST 2001
  
  Hey guys, Have you heard Raag Pavani?
  Is there any karnatic krithis in that raaga?
  IR did magic with that raaga in Guna - Paartha Vizhi with that wonderful voice of Jesudas and ofcourse with the choice of the thaalam and the orchestration, it is out-of-the-world.
  Any suggestions?
  
  
• From: v (@ 192.128.166.68) on: Thu Mar 22 16:51:21 EST 2001
  
  I take the liberty of posting taking these discussions from www.rahmanonline.com
  
  Is Rehman A Genius?
  
  Firstly, I would like you to know that this is solely a discussion based on music theory and appreciation. I am not interested in having replies like "Whatever you say, Rehman is a genius!" or "East or West Rehman is the best!" kind of stuff. I am looking for solid argument debating what I am saying here.
  
  You guys who are hard core Hindi music lovers, please donot argue against this. You donot know who illaiyaraaja is!!!! and you compare Rehman's music with the kind like Anu Malik, Nadeem shravan and Anand-Milind, who donot know how to hide what they have copied from other places. Atleast Rehman knows what to pick up and what to discard, evenif he copies from another place. So guys from North India, I think you can discard this discussion if you have not heard Illaiyaraaja's pieces or if you feel that you can talk about Rehman's music just because he has scored a dozen Hindi films, while Rehman's most amazing works (I should that in certain cases) are in South Indian films
  
  My background into music is somewhat related to A R Rehman. Since I was working on a project called FruityLoops, which is used by Rehman for creating his Drum Loops, for those guys who donot know what that is - it is a software with which you can create rhythm part of a song. I am a little composer (call me a tracker) myself, who use computers to compose music.
  
  Rehman cannot be considered a born genius:
  
  I am saying this because, the amount of time he takes to compose a song, to put forward a song into a release is enormous compared to the likes illaiyaraaja. You may say that it is because he is a perfectionist. I say No! Illaiyaraaja's compositions are highly perfect, given the time he takes to score music for a film. His orchestration, use of instruments and less electronics makes you feel his musical brilliance. He is a born genius!
  While Rehman relies totally on electronics, and artificial sound synthesis. Rehman cannot give output like Illaiyaraaja, how much ever he tries. Anyone using the kind of software you get right now in the market, can make great sounding music - but just because they sound good, you cannot say that they are the best music pieces around. A good example is the composer of Mast (I forgot his name), the title song is a masterpiece that could rival Rehman's hegemony in the field of digitized music, although it has that tinge of Enigma to it. How many of you guys know that Rehman takes input from the artists who perform his songs? Why is Rehman not able to provide good BGM for his films? Why is that all Rehman songs should have so much of electronics jugglery in them?
  Switch off all the electronics, give him a simple harmonium, ask him to compose a song with it. I bet he cannot give you an output that is anywhere near what the Maestro Illaiyaraaja or R D Burman, or Naushad Miya can give. He is really limited to what he can do and what he cannot do is really a huge list. That is why Rehman cannot be a born genius.
  
  Guys who wanna debate this please do, I would accept it if you can out forward some good arguments against this.
  
  Thanx,
  
  Luv Ya Guys,
  Eswar
  
  Hi Eswar,
  I dont disagree that Ilayaraja is a genius and Rahman himself has said that. But honestly, I'm not sure of the cut-off criteria to call someone a genius. OK lets come to the point. The art of composing is a multi-faceted approach to music-I mean there are things called sound sense, voice selection, effects, recording standards which in combination with the created music gives the precise feeling the composition is meant to convey. Ilayaraja's music was dumb as far as these things were concerned, his sole strength being a powerful outline and brilliant orchestration-but even these he did in a crude way(as everyone in those times did) as if he was living in the 19th century. He could have very well exploited the available technology and made his songs more presentable and this would have made him indispensible.
  
  Now thats where Rahman has outshined Ilayaraja as a 'professionalist'. He brought into light the thenceforth unknown/unused aspects of composing and this gave his songs more 'feel'. Ilayaraja failed to understand the complete potential of sound and its effects in a song-he was working on a superficial plane(only the musical aspect) and did'nt get to the basic stuff-the quality called 'sound dynamics'. And surely Eswar, you think Rahman is just technology? Then why do you think he was able to replace Ilayaraja? The same technology is available to all composers -why not they become as successful as Rahman? Definitely, his songs are rooted in melody and he uses facilities to cream his cake. To quote a south indian composer,'Rahman's music is digital, but it is intelligent, not just sound'. And ofcourse using loops and inputs from artists make things "seemingly" simple, but thats what gives his songs the difference. And this type of composing, in contrast to convention, consumes plenty of time at the recording level(studios) and take their time. There is lot of perspiration involved in it. And as Einstein said, "GENIUS IS 99% PERSPIRATION AND 1% INSPIRATION "So what do you think 'bout Rahman-still the same?!!
  
  --.Anand.
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.76.3.20) on: Thu Mar 22 17:16:07 EST 2001
  
  v,
  Angathaan Kozha adi sandai mudinchathu yendral inga arambichuteengalae?
  
  "Vathikuchi pathikathu daa yaarum vanthu urasira varayilae"
  
  
• From: Eswar (@ 63.44.143.65) on: Thu Mar 22 21:01:10 EST 2001
  
  I was expecting a reply to the one about Pavani. Looks like they have posted one of my discussions in rehmanonline.com here. I thought I would keep the fight in rehman's site and do some good learning on music here :)
  Guys, please, let's talk about IR here.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Fri Mar 23 12:53:32 EST 2001
  
  Eswar,
  Man ..you really have the patience to interact with people who say "superficial plane" == "(only the musical aspect)" !!!
  
  
• From: Omega (@ 205.227.43.12) on: Fri Mar 23 13:13:48 EST 2001
  
  Eswara , vaanum mannum handshake pannudhu unnal
  eswara
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.46.130) on: Fri Mar 30 11:21:24 EST 2001
  
  Hello,
  I was listening to Kadhal Oviyam songs today and the song 'Amma Azhagee Ulagin Olliye...' looks like inspired ARR to compose 'Marghazhi Thingal Allava..'. Especially, the orchestration of second interlude of Marghazhi Thingal allava before Unnikrishnan takes over resembles very much the orchestration of 'Amma Azhagee..'.
  
  Also, the lyrics having a lot of similarity.
  
  "Engum Thee Elai Suttri Suddumo...Enthan Esai Athanai Yetti Vedume(??)...Intha Veppam Yenai Yena Seiyum Sandanagal Pusumooo... Ullirukkum Jyothi Onru Pothum Athanai Vepam Theedumo..."
  
  resembles
  
  "Nam Kadhal Jyothi, Kalaiyin Jyothi, Kallaimagal Magalle Vaa Vaa... Vaaa.. Avaaa......Jyothi Eppadi... Jyothiyai Errikum...Vaa,...aaa...."
  
  Needles to say, both songs are very well written by Vairamuthu.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: ravi k.s. ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.52) on: Sun Apr 1 04:52:51 EDT 2001
  
  FYI:
  
  The singer Uma Ramanan in a recent interview in Ananda Vikatan said that the song, "Manjal Veyyil Malayitta Poove.." in the film "Nandu" (I doubt it was ever released) was composed by IR overnight in a train ride from Madhurai to Madras after some function IR had that evening.
  
  In the next morning recording of the song, while she was singing final score and the song was recorded, her husband (singer Ramanan) was in tears listening the song while in the recording theatre. Uma Ramanan mentioned that that was her unforgettable experience in her musical career.
  
  

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