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Has ARR ever been inspired by IR?

Topic started by Responsible_Critic (@ 160.231.1.20) on Wed Feb 21 17:14:21 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi Guys:

Listen to this Telugu Song composed by IR ( I am not sure if this was dubbed in Tamil ) - it's from Surya IPS. This came in 1990

http://64.81.35.203/songs/SuryaIPS_Hattiri.ram

Listen to the Kadhalan Song by ARR ( I am giving the link to telugu version of it - check the tamil one if you want )

http://64.81.35.203/songs/Premikudu_Andamaina.ram

Let the song start, wait and relax to enjoy the similarities.

If there are any such inspirations - let's discuss.

BTW, this thread is not intended to prove that everybody copies from IR. But just curious...

Responsible Critic

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.190) on: Wed Mar 7 11:55:10 EST 2001
  
  kk:
  thats ok yaar. I don't understand this IP address business. If you know something, I would like to hear from you or any body else... please explain me.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed Mar 7 12:18:08 EST 2001
  
  Common friend;
  
  If you are a guy, who listens to everybody's music and totally not bothered about who is in 1 and 2, why do keep pressing to people the same thing (araicha maave araipathu). What is your ultimate aim? Are you going to change the attitudes of people. If you are fond of listening to somebody's music, that's it. Does that affect other's taste? You pose as if you are talking reality and others live in imagination. That's your first illusion.
  
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.190) on: Wed Mar 7 12:31:32 EST 2001
  
  Ramesh.oops... flifo:
  
  Ask this question to yourself? Why have you been posting all your craps all along?Are you going to change the mindset of ARR fans?
  
  Yerichchal padathinga thambi
  
  If somebody supports IR blindly then you will accept. If one says a little against or talks from a common platform then God, you get irritated.
  The reason why I am wasting my time here is same as the reason for why you are wasting your time.
  At some some point of time we have to talk sense, but all of us keep following the same track of bashing other without fail.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Wed Mar 7 12:45:57 EST 2001
  
  Naan ungalukku thambiya?...ok..ok..
  
  Nobody supports IR blindly...some likes his music much more than you...but i donno how that hurts you....if they feel Ir to be god..how does that matter to you...don't tell the reason you're wasting time for us...but I am not wasting because of you...i don't have other job to do..what to do?..so simple... sense and non-sense are not absolute factors. you may feel your posting to have some sense...others may not....so...take the way you want... if i reply a posting that does not mean i am angry...so don't assume yourself...as always!!
  
  
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.249) on: Wed Mar 7 13:25:42 EST 2001
  
  RC:
  
  Guys, can you please start another thread and discuss about who's better - even I will participate there to discuss on these kinds of topics ( may be I can talk bit wild on these topics ). This thread is essentially meant for discovering the similarities and copying in the disguise of inspiration.
  
  Thanks for your Cooperation.
  
  Regards,
  RC
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.249) on: Wed Mar 7 13:25:59 EST 2001
  
  Guys, can you please start another thread and discuss about who's better - even I will participate there to discuss on these kinds of topics ( may be I can talk bit wild on these topics ). This thread is essentially meant for discovering the similarities and copying in the disguise of inspiration.
  
  Thanks for your Cooperation.
  
  Regards,
  RC
  
  
• From: Philosopher (@ 12.29.192.65) on: Wed Mar 14 08:38:18 EST 2001
  
  Please listen to "Raja Rani Jaaki" form Netrikkan
  by IR and "Thee Thee" from Thiruda Thiruda from ARR - definitely not copied, but curiously similar mood or inspired!!
  
  
• From: ravi k.s. ravichandran (@ 128.110.251.70) on: Fri Mar 16 22:01:40 EST 2001
  
  Sure..A good example of ARR inspired of IR...
  
  The background "Thappattai" beat of "Yem pehru Padayappa.." in movie Padayappa..is a "literal inspiration" of the one of the interlude beats in IR's song.. "Madhini Madhini Machanh Illiyah Ippoh Veettula ? " in Kamal's movie Kadal Meenghal. The bit comes uexpectedly in IR's song..so you need to listen carefully.
  
  I too was bit surprised by the "literal" inspiration !!!
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Sat Mar 17 09:24:52 EST 2001
  
  hey come on. These beats are not original to either. You can hear such beats in many folk festival or marriages. I have heard , probably the same kind of beats or thalams in many political meeting. It is there for quite long. Its not a complicated beat. It can be played and it becomes an insticnt beat for who ever is good at thavil or melam.
  
  
• From: S T S (@ 65.3.195.189) on: Sat Mar 17 12:45:18 EST 2001
  
  Common Friend,
  
  You can hear such beats in many folk festival or marriages I already pointed out about the folk beats. There is nothing as such folk beats. What they use in the festivals are 'Thillaanaa Mohanaambal' or film songs. Kulavai paattu, Kummi Paattu, Mulaipaari Paattu etc., does not have the beat you have mentioned. You are one trying to convince as if IR lifted from folk music. Give me one example. Kulaivai sathathodu paattu aarambichaa athu copy alla. Starting with Kulavai but tune takes over.
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Sat Mar 17 12:56:34 EST 2001
  
  STS:
  Don't undermine the folk arts during festival times. Its not film songs. It probably comes at the end or when some MLA or councillor comes. I am talking about performing arts. Many beats that you and other talk have come from the rustic land. IR has used them nicely in his songs. I have personnaly heard and seen them. There used to be a program in DD long before where they used to explain about folk arts and origin. I will try to remember and recollect some items from that and try explain that.
  
  That's all for today.
  
  
• From: Paratte (@ 161.142.1.6) on: Sun Mar 18 00:09:44 EST 2001
  
  Has ARR ever been inspired by IR?
  
  MY FOOT!
  
  Now that ilayaraaja is biting dust, you morons want to share ARR's success. Stupid fellows. Go and live with your own dreams don't polute the world with your stupid archaic stubborn idiotic views.
  
  Go get a life!
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 203.199.237.53) on: Sun Mar 18 00:43:31 EST 2001
  
  paratte
  what an apt alias for an illiterate, arrogant, uncouth being!
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ 202.156.2.242) on: Sun Mar 18 13:15:00 EST 2001
  
  Paratte,
  
  Just curious. What were u listening to before 1993?
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Mon Mar 19 00:43:37 EST 2001
  
  in Classical Illayaraaja S.L.Ramakrishnan points out the inspiration that ARR could have got from IR in a classical based song. It is as follows:
  
  In the film vandi cholai sinna raasu there is a song sugam sugam sugam vaendum vaeendum. It, S.L.Ramakrishnan says, is classically inspired from meendum meendum vaa from Vikram. He says, the tune is based on the same raaga and the development of the tune(or something like that) is same as Vikram song. If i'm not wrong, both songs are tuned in Dharmavathi.
  
  
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.183) on: Mon Mar 19 10:46:53 EST 2001
  
  Kupps:
  Who is SLR? Thanks for Raaga explanation. I would like to remember the raaga names a nd the songs. As far as my knowledge goes, songs based on same raaga doesn't amount to copying. Does it?
  
  HC ARR FANS:
  All the while I have been seeing ARR fans as very intelligent and decent people here. They have whole heartedly praised IR for his work ,at the same time they have also stud by ARR, when an healthy argument comes. Unlike hc IR fans many ARR fans acknowledge IR to be great. This shows their generosity and broad mindedness.
  But, now some ARR fans seems to get much harsher and use unethical words. This will do no good to the argument in favour of ARR. Lets not use unethical or harsh words to put forth our point.
  Yes, I too had once or twice resolved to such words in past , but I promise that I will not do that again. Lets maintain the decorum of this forum.
  
  
• From: vasu (@ 192.135.244.69) on: Mon Mar 19 11:21:39 EST 2001
  
  "All the while I have been seeing ARR fans as very intelligent and decent people here."
  
  "Unlike hc IR fans many ARR
  fans acknowledge IR to be great. This shows their generosity and broad mindedness."
  
  u may want to cut these kind of general statements...There have been enough stupid guys
  like aa, cc....etc (bb left intentionally ;-) )
  throwing some stupid arguments.
  
  The so called broadmined/intelligent ppl play it extremely safe with a std prefix to their stmts -" I too am a HC IR fan, but......."
  
  It doesn't require intelligence/broadmindedness/generosity to
  say Wasim akram is the best fast bowler in the world...all it requires is u being truthful to yourself.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Mar 19 11:38:19 EST 2001
  
  Re: Folk music. Folk music tunes and beats are standard (well-documented in our literature). Some tunes are actually rAgams. I dont see anything wrong in using/evolving these in film songs. Its OUR music, so that is how we can make music right ?
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Tue Mar 20 00:33:28 EST 2001
  
  CF first of all i did not say it is a copy, i said it is an inspiration.
  Then i did not say that as inspiration just because of both are based on same raaga. The emphasise is on the following phrase ...and the development of the tune(or something like that) is same as Vikram song.
  I'm not well-versed in Classical music. So, i just quote from the article part 15 (the last, i guess)from the series Classical Illayaraaja ...
  
  Dharmavathi is the 59th melakartha ragam. Sa Ri2 Ga2 Ma2 Pa Da2 Ni3 Sa as arohanam and the converse as avarohanam. It is the prathimadhyamam of Gowrimanohari (23rd melam). About couple of years ago Rahman tuned a superb Dharmavathi song in vandicholai chinnarasu. The song is sugam sugam vendum. I think the singer of the song is Vani Jayaram. It is one of the best songs that Rahman has tuned in his short career so far. It is a very sexy song. He starts the tune in the madhyama sthayi like Sa Ga Sa Ga, with a very very prominent chord sequences in the background. While another song from the same movie became a good hit (senthamizh naatu thamizhacheeyae sung by the late Shahul Ameed), this lovely song based on a pure classical ragam did not become a hit. Earlier, Rahman has tuned one more Dharmavathi in the movie gentleman. The song is ottagathai kattikko, which came as an unbelievable melody in that movie with a fantastic rhythm played in the pukka south indian instrument "thavil".
  
  Of course, Rahman had exhibited the usual (predictable) "cinema musician's tendency" of deviating from the ragam by using some foreign swaras in both the above songs. Even though there is predominant use of Da2 in sugam sugam, in the charanam he uses Da3 Ni3 prayogam like Neethimathi ragam (60th melam). In ottagathai kattikko, he very liberally uses both Ni2 and Ni3, making it difficult to bring it under either Hemavathi (58th melam) or Dharmavathi. For our purposes to discuss Dharmavathi, I called ottagathai kattiko as Dharmavathi in this essay.
  
  Rahman said in one of his early interviews that he avoided listening to contemporary music as did not want to get influenced by that music. He wants his music to be original and new! Alright bro, make music without the influence of your forefathers! Let us see, if you can!
  
  This is an ever changing world. People are born constantly and people are dead similarly. We all have come into the world not like Mr. Jesus Christ without a father. We have our roots strongly based on our immediate previous generation, and less significantly on the innumerable generations in-between from the ages of origin of man to now. Newtonian concept of gravity was put to disuse by the "nascent" Einsteinian concept in the 20th century. The important thing to remember and appreciate is that Newton did prominent work on gravity before, and his ideas pre-existed the period of Einstein. If it were not for Newton to intrigue Einstein, the latter would not have become such a great scientist. If it were not for the stimulus of advaitha of Sankara, neither would have Ramanujam come up with his visisht- advaitha, nor Madvacharya with his dvaitha philosophy. Nature requires a pre-existent state to progress to the next state. It sends Nagesh first in the time window to do his comedy and then Vadivelu. It sends Chatruhan Sinha first and then later Rajnikanth. We are all a small part of the continuously self-propagating enormous force that originated in the big bang. Nobody can molt the profound ancestral influence to become a "new" creator (in absolute terms).
  
  Illayaraja too, has tuned wonderful Dharmavathi's. His first was probably in the movie vikram. The song is meendum meendum vaa. S.P.Balasubramaniam and S.Janaki! He starts his song in madhya sthayi like Sa Sa Sa Sa (meendum meendum) and then all of a sudden jumps one octave
  to the thara sthayi Sa (vaa). He has used Mridhangam as a wonderful rhythm support in that song. In the charanam the tune is just excellent. Pa Pa Pa Ma2 Da2 (thekku marathil) Pa Pa Pa Ma2 Da2(sedhukki vaitha) Pa Pa Ma2 Pa Ga2 Ma2 Pa (dhegam idhu thaana). Even in the charanam he frequently jumps from madhyama sthayi Sa to thara sthayi Sa. To me, it seems like Rahman got the idea to tune his sugam sugam from meendum meendum vaa. Both are very sexy, romantic playboy channel duets! Both of them are great in their own aspects.
  
  
  This seems to be his address:
  Lakshminarayanan Srirangam Ramakrishnan.
  Department of Vision of Science,
  The University of Houston College of Optometry,
  Houston, Tx 77204.
  
  You can find this series of article in any of the Illayaraaja web pages. If you wish you may read them, they are indeed very excellent (atleast to me).
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.250) on: Tue Mar 20 01:23:25 EST 2001
  
  hey! just curious...
  what does it say Has ARR ever been inspired by IR?
  
  Does it mean are (some)songs of ARR inspired from IR songs? or the viceversa??
  
  sorry for being poor in understanding english.
  
  i've been thinking that ARR inspired from IR. Is it right?? RC please help.. :-))
  
  

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