Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Dr.SPB , DR.KJY, M.Rafi & Kishore Kumar, who is the greatest out of these?

Topic started by Udit naryan, harihara & Kumar sanu (@ 195.92.67.65) on Fri Jan 10 12:56:43 EST 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I know it is a touch one, it is very close between Rafi & SPB, my opinion is as follows

1) SPB
2) Rafi
3) KJY
4) KK

how about yours??

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: sowjanya (@ 219.65.97.122) on: Wed Jan 15 23:56:40 EST 2003
  
  s.p.b is nice start
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Jana (@ 202.88.152.184) on: Thu Jan 16 01:33:20 EST 2003
  
  I missed out on this interesting discussion for lastfew days. Some points have been real good.
  
  Raghu:
  I dont agree with your saying that NI languages are easy to speak.You are telling that you are a SI and you can speak any hindi word properly. Maybe its true but for most guys its not possible. Because in tamil you have one 'Pa' whereas in hindi you have 4 different variations of it. Same goes with many letters like 'ka' 'cha' etc. One small example is that if a SI says 'Dil chahta hai' it can be translated as 'heart is an umbrella'. I guess the guys with knowledge of hindi and SI accent will understand it. So basically NIs diction os SI is as bad as SIs diction of NI languages.
  
  
  You are also criticizing the NI MDs for not doingclassical music based songs. See the basic reason is this. A tamil or telegu MD can create a carnatic based song as he knows the area where his songs will be heard and there people have a bit of idea of it. Whereas in Hindi film music the target area has to cover full India if not tamil nadu. (no pun intended ). A Hindustani based song will not find notice in SI or Bengal if they do so. Their target audience is wide ranged and so they donot have freedom to choose one particular type on excel in it. Whenever they have done it has not done well with the masses.
  
  If you listen to the soundtrack of the movie named "Bhairavi" by LP the songs are classical and too good but commercial failure. This stopped others from doing so.
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Jan 16 01:44:22 EST 2003
  
  Ali
  
  Off the track -Wasim ,Walsh comparison is ok on one ground ..for the start..i should say ground ONE.
  
  Walsh showed character in 1987 World cup as a great human being.That is what SPB is!
  
  Wasim showed his "Character" in 1999 (against Bangladesh - a loss to make millions for his bookies!)and 1996( by not playing India at Bangalore, again to please and profit his PAYMASTERS!)Hope Rafi is not of that character!
  
  I think the correct comparison is Inzamam for Rafi and Sachin for SPB!
  
  Numbers is not the criteria ...right.Then should we say P Suseela with lesser numbers than LM is a better singer..and God SHE IS!PS again showed mer mettle in Tamil,Telugu,Kannada.VJ has even lesser numbers and i am sure you are aware that the classical Hindustani musicians have voted for Vani s meera over LM.(I shall try to get the URL soon to proe this.Read this in Raju Bahrathan s article)
  
  Ali,
  Variety..i think you have not heard SPB enough!As i had told earlier for the followers of Bollywood world is as big as Lokandwala complex.Please dont forget SPB has won a national in Tamil,Telugu,Kannada and Hindi.Languages with totally different lipis.Much more different that the lipis of Marathi,Punjabi,Hindi which all have the Devangiri script base.
  
  
  Singing in Hindi is more difficult ...!
  
  I shall give a thousand years to Udit/Sanu to get Zha right ,and i am sure at the end they would come and ask for 1000 more.But take other southies like Hariharan/Kavitha whose Mother tongue is not Hindi yet singing Gazals with perfection.Please wait..we have another surprise for you in Karthik who is going to take Bollywood by storm.
  
  One thing is sure..North has the numerical superiority,undeniable,provable.But south has the technical superiortiy again UNDENIABLE AND PROVABLE.As our CNA used to say "We have Peacock and not crow as our national bird,though we have more crows".
  
  Apt when the crows have nothing to crow about!!
  
  We used to have hearty laughs on Bollywood s attempt (Some Jackie-Nadiadwalla production) to ape the special effects of Muqqala Muqabla!Bolly wood is atleast 50 years behind us in technology and know-how.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Jan 16 01:57:40 EST 2003
  
  Jana
  
  Managed to come out with a Classical music based movie in the last 30 years ,at last "Bhairavi" -the Ashiwini Bhave starrer?Good.That was a difficult one for you.wasn t it?The problem is NOT the wide spectrum of audience,it is their shallow understanding!Sankarabaranam had 100 days even in TN
  
  For SI movies even (yes EVEN!)Kannada can boast of classical music movies like Shenai Appanna( Jaya Prada *),MalayaMarutham(vishnu Vardhan *) and the recent Hamsalekha movie for which SPB won the national...Not to talk anout Salangai Oli,Sindu Bhairavi in Tamil,HH Abduallah,Chitram in Mal,Annamayya ,Thyagayya in Telugu.
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Thu Jan 16 04:51:18 EST 2003
  
  OISG;
  
  Wow, Shankaraparanam ran for 100 days in TN, see the power of music, I am SL tamil, I was about 4 when Shankaraparanam was released in Colombo, boy, all the SL tamils did not understand a word of telugu, but watched the film 3/4 times, because of the songs, huge credit to KVM & SPB!
  
  >>Hamsalekha movie for which SPB won the national<<
  
  can you please give more information about this movie, thanks!
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Thu Jan 16 04:53:56 EST 2003
  
  OISG & ALI
  
  guys, where is Muralitharan on your list, he is the world' best bowler, not W.Akram or C.Walsh!.
  
  
• From: OISG (@ 193.188.97.152) on: Thu Jan 16 05:37:51 EST 2003
  
  Gaana Yogi Gavai i think.The MD was Hamsalekha and prob produced by Hamsalekha himself.
  
  Muralitharan -We are waiting for Karthik!
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Thu Jan 16 05:44:12 EST 2003
  
  OISG;
  
  >>Gaana Yogi Gavai i think.The MD was Hamsalekha and prob produced by Hamsalekha himself.
  <<
  
  was that a telugu movie, if so can you please tell me where I can listen to the songs online?
  
  many thanks
  
  
• From: Are Yaar (@ 203.115.31.67) on: Thu Jan 16 05:44:32 EST 2003
  
  Ali:
  Point well taken..but I disagree with your opinion.
  
  Raghu:
  I still maintain that TMS has good bass...
  Now I understand that you even Categorised HH to extremely nasal singer...Well I don't agree with you here fully.
  But, lets leave our internal conflicts and lets comntinue with good discussion
  
  
• From: Raghu (@ 217.158.120.226) on: Thu Jan 16 06:12:26 EST 2003
  
  Are Yaar;
  
  No, I am not taking this seroiusly, so no offence meant, but TMS has a nasal voice, so as Hariharan/Udit/Kumar & Co, even KJY sounds nasal at high octaves.
  
  bass meaning a heavy voice at very low pitch, u will notice this in SPB's 70's till early 90's songs, shankaraparanam is a typical example, u will even notice the heavy voice of SPB when he speaks, like in a concert, I have also seen him speak and sing in live shows (in London).
  
  the other voice, which has very good bass, is Dr.BMK, followed by Kishore Kumar / ghantasala. there is a similarity between SPB /BMK /Ghantasals' voices don't u agree?
  
  
  
• From: Thaanga mudiyala saami (@ 203.106.162.116) on: Thu Jan 16 06:35:19 EST 2003
  
  No one has any right to talk bad about TMS.
  Please behave your age, kiddos.
  
  
• From: sundaresan (@ 61.11.75.120) on: Thu Jan 16 09:03:11 EST 2003
  
  Ali
  
  Your detailed count on Rafi/KK etc is appreciated-not for the contents but the painstaking efforts taken by you.
  
  Alas! It is clear that You only know about rafi's songs and not About SPB's. I am an ordent Fan of Rafi & SPB. I am a singer myself,though an amateur.My counter to you on some points are-
  
  1. You talk about lack of breath control in SI film music. You are joking.
  I have hundreds of songs where a singer had to sing holding his/her breath. Even in songs like 'KanMaNiyae kadahal enbathu KaRpaniyo' you could hear the breath pauses of Janaki but not that of SPB's. What about the 'sangeetha jathi mullai kaaNavillai' Infact pattum naanae a master piece song by TMS shows amazing breath control. so is Psusheela's Award winning Chittukuruvikenna kattuppadu. The classical form of carnatic music warrants possseing breath control/holding braeth for a long time which has a direct link to Thala & meter (kaLai- chavukkam).
  
  And talking of SI languages, pronunciation is the most difficult aspect especially in Tamil. There is Zha, 'Vallina Ra'which are unique to tamil and to some extent to malayalam.Very few north Indians that too after years of staying here have managed to speak colloquial language but struggle very hard when it comes to singing -the south Indians if not mastered the language atleast sing with facility may be with their vernacular accent.
  But singers like shankar Mahadeven sing in urdu just like a native.you show me one such example of any renowned NI singer singing well in SI languages.
  
  You have also talked about singing for Shammi kapoor and going berserk. Kamal hasan at one point of time was more a dancing actor than a character actor. There are a number of songs which SPB's has sung like 'Ennadi Meenakshi" ILamai idho idho' Even in the 90's in the movie 'Kalaingan' he has sung 'Edakku mudakkana sarakku'.
  
  SPB has excelled in singing for different actors
  be it Mohan, kamal, Rajini, Vijayakanth, Satyaraj ramarajan, Prabhu, Arjun-ofcourse His playback for Rajini& kamal is exceptional. He sang for MGR in the earlier days-though it was a very much different voice from that of TMS all the songs he sang for MGR were super hits.He even sang a few songs for Sivaji -of course TMS was the best singer for Sivaji.Not singing for Shammi does not make SPB any lesser. He did wonders with these different speaking voices and used his bass effectively. If you notice in ShankarabaraNam, he sang with much heavier bass for Somaiyajulu and softer voice for chandramohan.I do not think you have aptly listened to these. SPB matches KK in hoodling.
  
  You also say that some tunes are so good that SPB did not make any difference ! this is absolute non sense. If you listened some songs like Ragagngal PadinaaRu uruvaana varalaRu' it was only because SPB's awesome sangathis and breezy singing the songs became great hits.
  
  Rafi did lose his voice quality towards the 5-6 years You touch your heart and say whether in 'Kya huva tera Vaadha'(1978) Rafi's voice is as sweet as it sounded 'Dilke Jarokae mein'(1967).In fact Rafi sounded more like his imitator Mahendra kapoor in his last few years and sounded more strained. Further he definitely lost out to KK at the arrival new crop of actors like Rajesh Khanna, Rishi Kapoor, Amitabh Bachan.
  I was living in bombay during those years and thus could easily perceive the shift that was happening.
  
  Rafi definitely had an edge over others in singing high octaves but lower range he was not that good. Probably some body like Mukesh or PBS excelled in mantra sthayee. But this does not mean they were greater than RAFI.
  
  Hence I hold a view that SPB and Rafi were equally great. While Rafi had a classical music back ground and hence his rendering of some classical base songs became immortal.
  SPB with no classical backing has sung some wonderful numbers in both classic music based movies and others. For example' Unakkenna melae nindrai oh nanda laala'set to sindhu bhairavi or 'malarae mounama' set in Kanada. He is gifted with a very flexible voice which in Carnatic music parlance is known as 'gamaka origai Saareeram' therefore you can not belittle him or shun out in comparison with Rafi or KK or KJY. because SPB has the timbre from which he brings out the different voices of these singers in to one making it unparallel.
  
  
  
  
• From: avr (@ 132.206.124.131) on: Thu Jan 16 09:35:51 EST 2003
  
  "Then should we say P Suseela with lesser numbers than LM is a better singer..and God SHE IS!PS again showed mer mettle in Tamil,Telugu,Kannada."
  
  OISG:
  
  You are passing a personal opinion as fact repeatedly. Are you trying to say that Lata sang only in Hindi? If so you are probably unaware that she was a phenomenon in Gujarati, Bengali and above all Marathi films as well. Even in languages like Kashmiri and Punjabi, Assamese and Rajasthani where her repertoire was miniscule, she is one of the most popular singers.
  
  Lastly, Punjabi, bengali and Gujrathi do not follow Devanagari script.
  
  Regarding Meera, Gulzar went to VJ AFTER LM refused it on the grounds that she had done several Meera Bhajans for her brother. VJ was never a patch on LM in Hindi songs in any way.
  As a matter of fact, the sheer complexity of the tunes crafted by Hridaynath Mangeshkar in his Meera albums has not been matched in any way by even Ravi Shankar. I am specifically referring to "ko birahini ko dukh jaaNe ho" which is composed by him in Madhuwanti Raagam with Dhamaar as the taalam [Dhamaar has the element of "silent beats"]. There is a huge majority of Hindi Music directors who preferred LM over VJ. In fact, VJs success in regional films in North India has also been extremely limited. She has never been considered to be one of "their" singers, the way Lata, Asha or Suman were considered. Want proof? Look up ANY site on Gujarati and Bengali film music. You won't find VJs name. And Lata, Asha feature there prominently.
  
  Since this is becoming a big digression, we can take this offline if you wish.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments