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Is Rahman Village, Carnatic and Background Musically Challenged?

Topic started by Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.73.97) on Sun Oct 29 01:31:55 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A great music director should be known for his/her trick on all trades when it comes to music. But AR Rahman is good only in recording crystal clear music. As far other areas are concerned he had failed miserably. Listen to all his village oriented songs same type of digital music. Even Deva and SAR do better job than him. What about BGM he plays the songs repeatedly. Deva does a better job atleast copying from Titanic or BraveHeart. What happened to songs based out of Raagas there also he lacks knowledge. What about his singing style man. Drs recommend his "Vandemataram" to clear Constibation than bringing out patriotism.

Discuss this fake, self promoting and copying star and remove his masquerade.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Nov 1 10:42:28 EST 2000
  
  G.Kuppuswamy,
  
  What do you mean by pronounciation in Tamil folk songs?As far as I know differnent types of folk songs has different styles of pronouncing the Tamil language(if I may call it slang?).
  
  I think it boils down to same issue.We think of the tamil folk songs done during 80s or during a particular period and hold that as a reference.
  
  Each folk music creator introduces his own style.
  Is it wrong or should the folk music pertain to one particular structure?
  
  As far as the song doesn't distract you from the theme of it,I see no problem here.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: vijs (@ 32.97.110.70) on: Wed Nov 1 11:00:44 EST 2000
  
  dorai u r right.more of pop and the way tamil words are pronounced ....oh man.I fear where we are heading to...........tamil is loosing its value.More Rahmanish means more kawwali....hope u understand...more or hindustani and arabic style of pronounciation.
  
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Wed Nov 1 12:23:09 EST 2000
  
  ching chak ching chak.....
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.123) on: Wed Nov 1 12:23:39 EST 2000
  
  G. Kuppuswamy,
  Thanks for your clarification. I understand your point much better now. I used the subbudu excerpt to show how the same thing can be a positive or negative depending on who sees it. It was refreshing to see you deal with relevant remarks and the issue at hand instead of resorting to melodramatic tirades.
  
  I am not involved in a kudumipidi sandai. I gave a rebuttal without any ill will and it seems people weren't ready to hear an opposing voice. Only when my views get distorted by others do I get mad. None of the disagreements on issues are personal.
  
  What's the point in having a discussion forum when a disagreement is viewed as an unhealthy thing? Discourse and debates are very natural and human; without them we will never go beyond our personal limitations.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Nov 1 14:16:40 EST 2000
  
  Guys,
  I have read some of the postings here. I have heard a lot of ARR carnatic, folk, western classical etc. IMO, he is just good collector of different versions, variations of different composers of different era and presents them in a very attractive form. After you listen to his song for a month, you forget the greatness in his perfomance and start feeling the shallowness in his work. Time and again he has proved that starting from Roja till Rhythm.
  
  I was listening to "Sangaman" last night in a very calm atmosphere at home in a nice 4000 watt audio system. Especially, the "Margazhi Thingal.." song sounded so ordinary on a good system. So far I have been hearing that on my car which has a Bose and it sounded very nice. When I hear the same song in a better audio system it sounded very ordinary (I mean lacking the classical depth). I just switched to "Sindhu Bhairavi", Poo Maalai Vaangivandan WOW what a difference. Both songs are set to the same Raga (I believe) but the Sindhu Bhairavi song was just reverberating like a "Vengalla Mani". Thats the difference between the classical depth in compostions of IR and ARR.
  
  IR has not digitized "Sindhubhairavi" nor has he used all kinds of Jimmicks and sophisticated instruments but the output is just uncamparable with ARR's work.
  
  I would rate "Sanakarabaranam" by KVM to be comparable to IR's work. But definetly not ARR. The kid has to learn a lot and change his style. Subudu is no fool when he commented on "Ennavale.." song as "Kedharathuku Vanda Setharam" and he is no fool to comment about IR's sendhurapovee's song as "Indha Sendura Poovee" endra varigallil Ulla NADA PARIMANAM ennai madha kannakill disturb panni errukku.
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Wed Nov 1 15:00:02 EST 2000
  
  dorai,
  
  pUmAlai vAngki vandhAn and mArgazhith thingkaL allavA are not in the same rAgam. the first one is in kAnadA and the second one is sindhubhairavi.
  
  
• From: HooHoo:))) (@ 207.82.165.101) on: Wed Nov 1 15:23:31 EST 2000
  
  But the movie name is the same.
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Nov 1 15:33:17 EST 2000
  
  HiHi,
  I stand corrected.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.123) on: Wed Nov 1 15:48:12 EST 2000
  
  Dorai,
  In a post littered with "I" you left out the most important sentence:
  After you(should be I, because the "you" sure as hell doesn't apply to my experience) listen to his song for a month, you(again "you" doesn't apply to me here) forget the greatness in his perfomance and start feeling the shallowness in his work.
  
  Thanks for sharing your perspective. "Ennavalae" is a pop song employing several ragams, "Poo Maalai" was a traditional classical song (a fabulous song indeed). I don't subscribe to Subbudu's ideas of what a pop song should be. He claims that every song, even pop songs should maintain ragam integrity. I feel this is absurd and totally inapplicable to the pop genre which is an amalgamation of many styles. Maybe if he said that "Margazhi" or "Sowkiyama" were messed up there may be some merit to that statement. Suppudu should stick to reviewing purely Carnatic music.
  
  Now, "Maargazhi thingal" is more a conventional Carnatic song so that can be considered for discussion as a Carnatic number. I have listened to it several times in many systems (Bose, by the way is a brand name, they make every level of system in Bose, from cheap $40 systems to $4000, so just saying Bose doesn't register any idea of the system.) and don't have the experience you have. What do you consider "digitalized" in this song, can you clarify?
  
  
  
• From: edu thaevaya (@ 206.40.50.1) on: Wed Nov 1 15:49:26 EST 2000
  
  enna dorai
  
  Kaeka allu illaena summa peela uttugina poooriyae....enna ragam nae taeriyama , summa depth giptu nu addichi vudaeriyae...endha mathiri posting
  
  'endha formthuka vanda saedaram'
  
  
• From: seedan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Nov 1 15:59:41 EST 2000
  
  a nice 4000 watt audio system. -- what is this system ? just curious.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.201) on: Wed Nov 1 16:04:48 EST 2000
  
  Dorai: I don't believe that identifying and knowing the intricacies of raagas is the be-all and end-all of music appreciation. But, you don't know the difference between kaanadaa and Sindhu bhairavi - that does NOT makes you a lesser mortal. Yet, you feel compelled to comment on the "difference between the classical depth in compostions of IR and ARR" - that makes you a lesser mortal. vishayam theriyalai nnaa vaaya poththindu irukkalaamEy.
  
  Subbudu (like most reviewers and typical thiNNai maamaas) thinks he is an expert on all subjects merely because he is an expert in Carnatic Music. edhirkka irundhaa 'yOv perisu! chummaa gammunu kidappiyaa? illa newtfmpage dorai maathiri unakku theriyaadha vishayaththula mookka nuzhaichchu nose-cut vaangindu varuviyaa?" nu kEppEn. Did ARR advertise and tout that he was composing ennavaLey in kEdhaaram?
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 129.188.33.223) on: Wed Nov 1 16:13:54 EST 2000
  
  RajaG, I agree with most of what you said. I dislike Subbudu for mookai nuzhathufying in almost everything. But to put things in perspective, I believe Subbudu's criticism of Ennavale had more to do with Unnikrishnan (a classical singer) agreeing to sing a not-so-classical number like Ennavaley and "selling his soul to cinema".
  
  I believe (correct me if I am wrong) Unni defended himself (he need'nt have, it was his perogative to sing anything he wanted) saying it was not a run of the mill song, but a raga based Carnatic number -- which led to Subbudu analyzing the song and pointing out its non-adherence to pure Carnatic music... (That Unni went on to sing for Deva later on is history, as is Subbudu now!)
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Nov 1 16:29:43 EST 2000
  
  Digression
  
  "That Unni went on to sing for Deva later on is history"
  
  This shouldn't be misintepreted as UnniKrishnan lowering the standars of music.
  He maintains a clear distinction between his carnatic profession and cinema career.
  
  I think he is the only playback singer who doesn't sing movie songs on stage.
  Sorry for this digression
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: HooHoo:))) (@ 207.82.165.101) on: Wed Nov 1 16:29:53 EST 2000
  
  reNdu vaarthai....Maha Kadi.
  
  
• From: seedan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Nov 1 16:30:07 EST 2000
  
  why i asked about the watts is for live programs we use 1500-2000 watts, I like to know about the "domestic" system which gives 4000 , I can get one for our live shows to make ir songs sound good during a live show.
  
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 136.182.2.222) on: Wed Nov 1 16:47:40 EST 2000
  
  Trend,
  
  What is so wrong about singing movie songs on stage? Why do we have this complex - Carnatic : Good and Move Songs : Bad? There was an interesting article in musicmagazine.com a while back that explored this attitude and its manifestation in movies (like Sankarabaranam).
  
  And (strictly IMO) - yes when a singer sings for Deva, he is bringing his dignity and the dignity of TFM. Deva (and SAR and Sirpi) are disgraces to TFM. I only hope the proliferation of mediocre composers like this, combined with the relative inactivity of IR, and Rahman's low output dont lead TFM down the path of HFM.
  
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Wed Nov 1 17:06:53 EST 2000
  
  Karthik,
  
  There is nothing wrong in singing movie songs on stage.UnniKrishnan is attuned to his opinion that stage for him is like devotion.
  
  He gets this devotion when he sings carnatic songs and people come to listen to him in that particular frame of mind.He wouldn't compromise it for anything to be on the stage to do anything else.
  
  I was trying to state clearly his stand.There is absolutely nothing wrong about someone singing on the stage.
  
  I'm an ardent fan of Unnikrishnan.I would consider what he is doing is more right.
  Anyway,personally,I'm not a supporter of singing movie songs on stage.
  
  Again, sorry for the digression.
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Dorai (@ 216.217.47.130) on: Wed Nov 1 18:22:57 EST 2000
  
  Edu,
  If you want to discuss on a point by point basis I am ready for it. From your posting people can judge whether my posting or yours is 'endha formthuka vanda saedaram'.
  
  You cannot twist the facts by providing sarcastic comments.
  
  

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