Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

Pronounciation in TFM songs

Topic started by muthax (@ user-38ld829.dialup.mindspring.com) on Sun Sep 13 03:45:16 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi guys,

TFM has seen lots of singers from other languages. Some have/are
ruled/ruling the TFM for so many years. Many of these singers started
to sing in tamil without even knowing to read and write in tamil.
Still those songs have been a big hit, for the tune, lyrics and
ofcourse their talent to bring the emotion in the song. In quite a few
occasions i have noticed singers like KJY have missed some finer aspects
of singing a song - the Pronounication. Not to blame the singers
i feel the MDs of such songs shud have taken more care on the
pronounciation aspects of these singers.

In this thread i would like to mention few songs of K.J.Y where he
missed the pronounciation. This is *not to criticise* KJY or
any other singer. But just to discuss this aspect in singing a song.
I would like u all to mention other such song/singers u have come across

1. Senthazham poovil vandhadum thendral en meedhu modhudhamma
poovaasam medai podudhamma penn bolae jaadai pesudhamma

whereas it shud have been Polae

same song the line

2. Maravaen Maraven arBudha kaatchi.

where as it shud have been arPutha.

3. Ninaivaalae silai seidhu unakaaga vaithen
Therukoilae odi vaa....

whereas it shud be thru-koilae

same song
4. sendhoora bendham......

whereas it shud be sendhoora bandham

guys pour more singers and songs...

Muthax

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: karthi (@ lab7.theatrium.net) on: Sat Jan 9 00:18:40 EST 1999
  
  Hi Guys!
  
  You sure won't believe if I said I have a couple of songs where PS (the great PS who was known for her clarity in pronunciation) pronounces words, I don't know if I should say, wrongly or not correctly. Well, here are these songs...
  
  1. The first one is her Ever Super Hit song:
  
  'Unnai Kaanaadha Kannum Kannalla'
  
  - The third stanza goes like this.....
  
  'En Meniyil Unnai...
  Naan Vaari Anaippen... and then here's it...
  
  'Nee tharum vaayo (should have been Nee Tharuvayo)
  Naan tharum venu'(shoulda been Naan Tharuveno)
  
  2. This is from the film 'Rani Theni' by IR.
  
  'Enna Solli Naan Ezhudha'
  
  - The song goes like this...
  
  'Enna Solli Naan Ezhudha
  En Mannavanin Manam Kulira
  Melaadaikkul Naan...
  Noolaadaikkul Oru... and here's it:
  
  'Pedhai Ennai Vadai Cheiyyum Achcham Vidumo Hoi' (should have been 'Pedhai Enna Vaada Cheiyyum...')
  
  Well, I cannot think of any other songs of PS. Even here atleast she's clear in what she sings - even when they are wrong.
  
  Unlike Vani Jayaram's another Super Hit:
  
  Vasanth, please listen to this song and do let me know what she sings, because I want to know the lyrics.
  
  'En Ullil Engo Engum Geedham'...
  
  The 1st stanza goes like this...
  
  'En Mana Gangayil Sangamikka....Pangu Vaikka...
  Pogidum... Poongu..........
  
  and only Vani knows what she sings there after until she ends like this...
  
  '....yile manam thangi nirka kaalam neram seradho'
  
  Thanks.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: suresh (@ 202.185.109.65) on: Mon Jan 11 06:00:59 EST 1999
  
  hi guys, I am a new comer for this forum. acctually in the song 'EnnuliL enggO Yenggum Geetham' Vani Jayaram has prononced the words correctly.It's a slow melody. So the words prononced softly. But when it comes to singers like A.R.R, Anupama (Konjam nilavu konjam neruppu ) and Suresh Peters we need sharp ears to listen what are they singing.
  
  
• From: Ramesh (@ 129.71.200.222) on: Mon Jan 11 14:08:30 EST 1999
  
  I thought there were a few other PS songs, I don't remember exactly now (since I haven't heard the song for a long time), but I feel perhaps the song
  
  
  'Gangai aatril nindru kondu
  meenai thedum penn maan ival'
  
  had some unnecessary stress on certain letters. Looked strange to me somehow when I used to listen. Correct me if I am wrong?.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.26) on: Mon Jan 11 16:02:43 EST 1999
  
  Hi,
  
  Interesting, isn't it? PS, the great, well known for her clear pronounciation of Thamizh words, did fail sometimes. But, these singers, fail occasionally. But, new singers, like SP, UN and the likes, pass occasionally. No. No. Sorry. They never pass. They can't be considered as Thamizh singers at all. So, I feel it is totally unnecessary to bring SP and UN into this discussion when we are talking about PS, SJ, VJ, SPB, KJY and others. It will mean that we are considering SP and UN also as Thamizh singers and that will put them along with PS, SPB, SJ, VJ and KJY.
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ cerberus5.fon.sprintcorp.com) on: Mon Jan 11 17:57:55 EST 1999
  
  Guys,
  Apart from TMS and Seergazhi, most of the playback singers have non-Thamizh mother tongues and backgrounds. In general, Telugu based singers can easlily adapt to Thamizh, because Telugu has all the sounds which Thamizh has, and more except "zha". So, PS, SJ & SPB did not have any pronunciation problem. Also keep in mind that these two singers (especially SPB) also lived in Madras and were probably already conversing in Thamizh before they started singing Thamizh songs. Of the singers with roots in Kerala - KJY, Chitra, Sujatha and Swarnalatha, the ladies do not have any major pronunciation problems except, when Chitra uses R in place of r. KJY does have a malayali accent and tends to use "dha" instead of "tha", and a typically malayali "thna" instead of "na". But, as Kavignar Vali said in the introduction of SPB's "enathu isai payaNam" concert at the Music Academy, when contemporary singers use lagaram in place of Lagaram and Zha, we do not know if we are in nagaram or naragam.
  
  Almost all other singers, especially the ones from North, really suck in pronunciation. However, while I am a big fan of ARR (and of course IR), I think the demise of Thamizh pronunciation and language started with the advent of ARR and his import of "Thamizh ignorant" singers.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Mon Jan 11 18:41:27 EST 1999
  
  I have always wondered how MSV could overlook KJY's pathetic pronounciation in "Deivam thantha Veedu" (Gyana Penne) and "Ninaivale Silai " (Therukkoyile). Unni Krishnan, an ardent devotee of KJY, follows suit by consistently pronouncing "pol" and "poL" and he is a Madras bred lad. I hope atleast the meanings of these words are clear to these people. I can understand Mohammed Rafi pulverising Telugu (he actually sang a duet with PS under KVM) which has no earthly connection with Urdu or Hindi ,not KJY and UK.
  Without these flaws being ironed out, none of them can be deemed complete singers.
  
  
• From: kuttipapa (@ prsyb107-05.splitrock.net) on: Mon Jan 11 21:24:30 EST 1999
  
  Dear Ramesh,
  
  I think the PS song should read:
  
  'Gangai aatril nindru kondu
  neerai (not meenai) thedum penn maan ival'
  
  obviously it's more meaningful now.
  
  Dear Karthi,
  
  In "Unnai Kaanadha" by PS, I think the lyrics go something like
  
  "Nee Tharum VaaLum Naan Tharum Velum"
  though I admit I'm not sure. I don't remember rest of the lyrics.
  
  Cheers guys!
  
  
• From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Mon Jan 11 22:47:18 EST 1999
  
  Hi kuttipapa! (Nijamaave nee kuttipapa-va?)
  
  That's something never occured to me. But adhukku enna arththam? Puriyalaye?
  
  
  
  
  
• From: GV (@ d41-fx01-lond-pdi.attcanada.net) on: Tue Jan 12 00:56:21 EST 1999
  
  Sriram Lakshman:
  
  I am sick and tired of listening over and over to the "intellectual" discussion about KJY's pronounciation in "Deivam thantha veedu..." and
  "Ninaivaalei silai...". KJY has been singing in TFM for nearly 30 years. He is probably the only singer who has recorded in almost all the Indian languages and English. He has sung some real great songs (won the national award 7 times) and some bad songs. Of course, being a non-Tamilian, his Tamil pronounciation was not great in the earlier days. Have you listened to any of his songs in later years (including the recording of Thiruppaavai)? BTW, he sings a lot more classical songs than movie songs in recent years. In fact, he has been writing, composing and singing classical (carnatic) songs (in Tamil)for quite a while now. Please refer to http://webpage.com/hindu/daily/990108/09/0908070g.htm for a review of a recent concert where he sang some of his own compositions.
  
  Instead of repeatedly mentioning a few songs from the 1970-s, it would be nice if people could appreciate the time and effort people like KJY are putting into providing great music for the enjoyment of everyone.
  
  
• From: suresh (@ bowerbird.qut.edu.au) on: Tue Jan 12 02:56:38 EST 1999
  
  GV:
  
  I don't see anywhere in this thread a slight attempt to wantonly slur KJY's reputation. Your dig at the "intellectual" nature may justify your personal angst at the discussion. But, when the topic is specifically about pronounciation in TFM, I don't think any of the well-natured criticisms are invalid. We all know KJY is a great singer, won 7 national awards, refused many more etc. etc.
  But the fact is despite decades of singing in Tamil, he's still a bad pronouncer of Tamil, IMO.
  That KJY fares far better in comparison with the likes of Udit is a grossly invalid argument, considering his experience and calibre. Let's not make holy cows of everybody and kill constructive criticism and debate.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ ifmxlenx.na.informix.com) on: Tue Jan 12 10:23:48 EST 1999
  
  GV:
  Apologies, if I have touched a raw nerve. KJY, for your information has been in TFM for 33-34 years but unfortunately, his pronounciation is still not upto the mark. You could have done well not to have mentioned the number of years he has put in. Singing in all languages does not mean that he has established a great command over all the lanuages he has sung in.
  
  Mentioning the number of national awards he has won is absolutely irrelevant. If you want to discuss the accolades showered upon your idol, open a separate thread.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Tue Jan 12 16:04:57 EST 1999
  
  GV,
  
  KJY is a great singer, no doubt. He has won the national award lot of times, agreed. But, people here are not trying to deny that (they can't, can they?). But, this thread is for discussing about the pronounciation of Thamizh by TFM singers. We are not taking UN and SP into consideration here, because it is a well-known fact that they try to "murder" Thamizh like anything. KJY's pronounciation is criticized because, inspite of being a great singer and after rendering a lot of Thamizh songs, his pronounciation of Thamizh is not up to the mark, IMO. This is quite a constructive criticism, I believe.
  
  
• From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 208.236.83.16) on: Tue Jan 12 16:06:37 EST 1999
  
  rajaG,
  
  I think SJ's mother tongue is Malayalam and not Telugu.
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments