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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Srinath (@ mail.startec.net) on: Wed Jan 19 11:44:25 EST 2000
  
  ttd,
  they are prbbly afraid of what they'll find ;-)
  
  
• From: Shankar (@ netcache31.mot.com) on: Wed Jan 19 12:40:43 EST 2000
  
  MS,
  After hey rAm i really hope there's some silver lining :-)
  
  vijanth,
  
  enga thalaivarai nAnga mottai nu chellamA koopiduvOm and I'm sure Madhan won't give any such responses, will u, madhan ????
  
  madhan,
  
  I got reminded of ur amartya sen posting after reading this :-)))
  
  
• From: Music lover (@ iq-ind-as007-122.iquest.net) on: Wed Jan 19 15:19:06 EST 2000
  
  The songs AR tuned so far,that sound a little original and fresh even today are from Duet,karuthamma and Iruvar.In Duet he used a saxophone maestro.Who knows what parts AR tuned and what parts the maestro tuned?Especially when AR claims he is learning Music forms now?
  Well, the fusion part he would have sure done it.
  But Anand, u cannot claim just from that song or some such songs he is great.
  
  Unga kanakkukku varuvom.
  IR has tuned 5500.AR enna 550 songs panni iruppara?70 movies panniiruppara?
  ithukkulla ethanai repetition?
  (See the other chains where such repetitions have been discussed.)IR athae ragam niraya songsukku use panni irukkar.Does it sound repetitive?
  Neenga ingae sinthikkanum!!!!
  
  Like our friends have mentioned above, IR never claimed he tuned this song in this raga.
  But they are good and will stand the test of time.
  That nalinakanthi song sundaresan mentioned is an excellent piece by IR and so catchy too.
  Classical therinchavanga, theriyadhavanga ellarum hum pannaranga.Neemgalum panni irupeenga:>
  He only tries to bring classical ragas to the people at general.When did he proclaim he was using only classical ragas or he was very orthrodox about using them?(Guys did we miss something Anand knows?:>)
  
  carribean,Hispanic and Greek music style can be used bY AR but westernising carnatic music (which needs awareness among the mass) so that a lay man can appreciate even unknowingly,athu avvalavu periya kutramo?
  Dikshithar has used carnaic music with western style.Avarum "pure junko" unga agarathiyil?
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Denis Ponniah,s.j. (@ infosun-fd.rus.uni-stuttgart.de) on: Thu Jan 20 06:30:09 EST 2000
  
  Mr.Anand
  I am sorry to tell you that you seem to prejudiced against IR and blindly supporting ARR. Certainly I do not deny that ARR has come out with good tunes like anyother MDs. When you are able to quote a few numbers by ARR to prove your point or to support your prejudice how did you fail to think various beautiful melodies set on various ragas bringing out the nuances and delving the depths of such ragas, ex Namthana Namthan Thalamvarum..in Pudhiya Vaarpugal- a song set in Shanmugapriya.Have you deliberately closed your eyes to various other similiar compositions such as numbers in Salangai Oli, Thai Mugambikai, Sindhu Bhairavi, Moham Mull, Kadhal Oviyam, Payanangal Mudivathillai etc. Listen to songs in Kannukul Nilava. Of all good songs by ARR you have quoted the example of Minsarakanna set in vasantha. Is ARR faithful to the mood and the rasa of this particular raaga? And in this song is there any natural and spontaneous flow? It is a hatch patch of all bits and pieces of that raaga without any harmony and unity.I would have been very happy if you had cited some other examples to prove your point.
  BYE
  Denis
  
  
• From: sweeny (@ gamma.alphalink.com.au) on: Thu Jan 20 07:52:51 EST 2000
  
  hey any one knows where to get Muthana muthalavo songs
  shyamy2k@yahoo.com
  
  
• From: eden (@ 202.54.71.143) on: Mon Jan 24 22:40:21 EST 2000
  
  Happened to hear a song from `mudhalvan' which starts like `azhagAna rAtchasiyE'...chEh, stinking lyrics..who's the guy that penned those lines?
  
  The thought of `chinnakkannan azhaikkiRAn' has flashed through my mind as DF'ers have been writing that both these songs are using the same rAgam (reethigowlai?)...bringing back to memory those lovely lines:
  
  `rAdhaiyai, poongOdhaiyai, avaL manam konda ragasiya rAgaththaippAdi'...
  `nenjin uLLAdum rAgam, idhu dhAnA, kaNmaNi rAdhA?'...
  
  IR's music (by this I mean music of his prime period, from 1977 to 92 for around 15 years) attracts your mind & heart with the beauty, freshness and pleasantness..it has such a variety that suits every mood of you and is capable of softening you, soothing you to a kind of exquisite inner peace and when needed exhilirating you or stimulating you to great levels of enjoyment. It's just that you need to choose from the great variety depending upon what you need when...
  
  ...whereas what is dished out as music nowadays (with such great hype, promotion etc.), along with the lyrics that reach all time lows in decency levels, is with a single motto of SHOCKING you and in that way giving you a kind of intoxication...
  
  IMO, the teams that work centering around ARR are primariy aiming at this shock treatment & they'll go any extent (including borrowing / shopping ideas worldwide) just to make sure that a normal, decent Thamizhan will get SHOCKED by their output! As the days pass by, they need to reach still lower levels to create the same level of shock, as the lyric for the song show...`adi manadhai aRuva maNaiyal aRukkaRiyE':-(
  
  When IR's music soothes one's mind and heart with the touch of blossoms, that of ARR does just the opposite, i.e. `aRuva maNai' technology! The worsening thing is people are no longer getting shocks, but are becoming numbed by the toxins...to the levels of calling these kuppais `classics & creativity'!
  
  (I wonder how the AIR - I heard the song on radio Cbe- transmits such songs with unpalatable lyrics, when they made such a great fuss those days on `kEttELE ingE' and `Oram pO')
  
  
• From: Krishnan (@ gatekeep.ti.com) on: Tue Jan 25 00:15:05 EST 2000
  
  Hi Shankar,
  I assume that you don't know about ragas and
  carnatic/hindustani music, otherwise you
  would't have compared a genius maestro (Dr IR) with a LKG student ARR(as per ragas ussage).
  Do you know how many ragas are there, and
  how many of them have been used by IR and ARR.
  For your info ARR has hardly used 4/5 ragas so
  far,where as IR has used more than 60 ragas for
  the film musics.
  
  You said only 5% of IR songs are good, it shows
  your junkness towards listening songs, am wondering you wouldn't have listened IR songs or
  100% biased towards ARR music(by listening unformatted musics like 'shaka laka baby' from
  mudhalvan). I would say 90% of IR songs are
  very very good and unique. Most of IR songs
  went unnoticed because of poor communication in
  olden days.
  
  May god bless ARR to copy good tunes from English
  albums/Old MSV/Bakavathar songs and give superhit
  songs to hot core fans like you.
  
  Thanks
  Krishnan
  
  
• From: Krishnan (@ gatekeep.ti.com) on: Tue Jan 25 01:15:46 EST 2000
  
  Sorry!!
  The previous posting is not for Shankar, its for
  Anand.
  
  Krishnan
  
  
• From: Athi (@ 1cust99.tnt41.chi5.da.uu.net) on: Tue Jan 25 02:14:03 EST 2000
  
  Eden,
  
  Very well written and let us see what the hard core fans of ARR have to say about this.I think both the songs with bad lyrics that you had mentioned about,has been penned by Diamond and I think he is writing with his eyes and ears closed nowadays.
  
  Athi
  
  
• From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102) on: Tue Jan 25 05:03:58 EST 2000
  
  diamond has sold his soul to St. Market, so we can hardly expect anything else from him. he knows what he has achieved in the past, and he's riding on that today. of course, he's got the help of rasikas who hail nonsense like "saththam illatha thanmimai ketten" as great poetry.
  
  
• From: madhan_for_president_club__President (@ dialup-209.245.138.158.sanjose1.level3.net) on: Tue Jan 25 05:54:36 EST 2000
  
  One good reason for not deleting this thread has to be Madhan's response...Awesome!
  
  Madhan, do you have any more quotes about 'The Motts', kaivasam?
  
  
• From: Danis Ponniah (@ infosun-fd.rus.uni-stuttgart.de) on: Tue Jan 25 08:36:44 EST 2000
  
  Hello! Mr Anand
  Your reply to the responses is looked forward to. What is your opinion about Mr Shankar's balanced response?
  Denis,s.j.
  
  
• From: ambleen (@ palo12.pacific.net.sg) on: Tue Jan 25 08:41:58 EST 2000
  
  To everyone!!
  
  Please never ever compare HIM to ARRahman. ARR is good in entertaining. Nothing wrong with that. But pls do not do the despicable. COMPARING!!!
  
  You can't compare both their works at all! Isaignani's work ranges from musical score(& i don't mean songs) to songs to God knows what. The best part is that he's bloody GOOD at that. Only Jerry Goldsmith & John Williams are on par with him.
  
  Oh pls pls don't be so foolish to do the despicable. Its embarassing.
  
  
• From: danis ponniah (@ infosun-fd.rus.uni-stuttgart.de) on: Tue Jan 25 08:43:13 EST 2000
  
  Hi Eden
  you have written very well. Mr Shankar must be now feeling a bit hard to accept the truth.Let us wait for his reply
  Danis
  
  

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