Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.
Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?
Regards,
Anand
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Silly (@ cfp118079.det.hfh.edu)
on: Tue Jan 18 12:21:59 EST 2000
Madhan,
idhu dhaan sollavandhadhai azhuthththththi solvadhu enbadho? 4 postingaaa?
- From: vijanth (@ conpc007.ee.qub.ac.uk)
on: Tue Jan 18 12:31:16 EST 2000
Hello Madhan ,
At last we waited for some posting with a lot fact and there comes your posting.
The web admin , Ravi and RA made a good job
by deleting all nasty comments by the thread
initiator (Mr Anand ) and the other who give hash
feed back
And Mr.Anand already back to his Network Research in Lucent and wont be comming back to TFM page in his life time I guess.
Thanks again Madhan. Folks lets stop it here.
Madhan posting is more than enough. Illayaraja
should thank you,Madhan for having such a mass database of his success story.
Ravi, it is terminating time because Mr Anand surrendered.
Vijanth Belfast Ireland
- From: vijanth (@ conpc007.ee.qub.ac.uk)
on: Tue Jan 18 12:32:23 EST 2000
Hello Madhan ,
At last we waited for some posting with a lot fact and there comes your posting.
The web admin , Ravi and RA made a good job
by deleting all nasty comments by the thread
initiator (Mr Anand ) and the other who give hash
feed back
And Mr.Anand already back to his Network Research in Lucent and wont be comming back to TFM page in his life time I guess.
Thanks again Madhan. Folks lets stop it here.
Madhan posting is more than enough. Illayaraja
should thank you,Madhan, for having such a mass database of his success story.I think three
posting is just giving us a highlight
Ravi, it is terminating time because Mr Anand surrendered.
Vijanth Belfast Ireland
- From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112)
on: Tue Jan 18 12:41:05 EST 2000
S and neruppu:
If I speak truthfully, I thought, this thread will just be an excuse to compile a list of similar sort. the reason is simple. Many of the albums are available as film collections only. athuthaan yaarukkaagavaavathu use aagumEnnu ezutha aarambichchEn..neenga solreenga..ithai ippadiyE vittudarEn..:-)
- From: vijay (@ 129.252.23.3)
on: Tue Jan 18 12:53:05 EST 2000
Ravi,
I think there is already an IR vs ARR thread.
- From: KelviKuri (@ 216.32.18.74)
on: Tue Jan 18 13:04:51 EST 2000
come on! grow up guys.......
- From: sabesan (@ ws-209-233-228-254.webvangroup.com)
on: Tue Jan 18 14:11:58 EST 2000
matheeen pooooo :-))))
- From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.171)
on: Tue Jan 18 14:27:28 EST 2000
Madhan : AMEN
- From: Manna Dey (@ daecfp02.sprint.com)
on: Tue Jan 18 15:41:53 EST 2000
Madhan,
Great response! But I still think mine is more appropriate considering the case in point:-)
- From: hihi:-) (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Tue Jan 18 17:00:51 EST 2000
dEy (m)aNNA,
nIngaLA?!?!? kalakkunga. ongaLap pAththadhum enakku AchcharyamA pOchchu. moreover, ongakkittErndhu oNNum varala. wanted to convey.
- From: manna = arasan = raja (@ kcecfp01.sprint.com)
on: Tue Jan 18 17:04:44 EST 2000
aruL,
vegu seekkiram anuppugirEn!
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Tue Jan 18 17:13:11 EST 2000
apdi varIngaLa.
purinthathu arasarE.
(vettip pEchchukku innoru thread! haiyyA jolly :-)))) )
- From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.22.112)
on: Tue Jan 18 18:18:08 EST 2000
koopteengaLaa arul ? :-)
- From: Jana (@ pppa41-resalecolumbus2-1r7223.saturn.bbn.com)
on: Tue Jan 18 21:05:33 EST 2000
Madhan: You've given a befitting reply to Anand. Anand is like an empty vessel - he made more noise. Nirai kudam thazhumbaadu..
- From: raasu (@ abd7d023.ipt.aol.com)
on: Tue Jan 18 22:06:29 EST 2000
Mr Anand is not knowing the greatness of our god illayaraasa... IR is only god of music and is top than old, new, future & also all hindi, english, malayalam telugu, tamil all language music people.. if anand does not know how greater illayaraasa sir then it means that anand not know what music is first. learn music first and then speak about illayaraasa sir. other people like madhan is all good because he only knows goodness of illayaraasa sir.
I always like only illayaraasa sir and not at all like silly music of rahaman. every cell in illayaraasa sir and every hair in his head will give music. rahaman has bigger hair but no music from it. its rubbish only. anand shup up and madhan talk more - madhan only knows illayaraasa sir's hair and music
- From: S (@ netcache31.mot.com)
on: Wed Jan 19 00:03:17 EST 2000
raasu,
>>every hair in his head
will give music.<<
thalaivar dhAn mottai adichukkarArE...adhunAla dhAn ippo songs ellAm avLo nannA illayA ?? :-))
- From: neruppu (@ 98a744e2.ipt.aol.com)
on: Wed Jan 19 00:18:21 EST 2000
every cloud has a silver lining!
the best thing to come out of this reprehensible mischief by Anand was the response by Madhan. Wow
MS, nalla kaariyam thaan panna Arambicheenga. why dont we start a new thread for that list. or is something similar sleeping in the archives somewhere?
- From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.22.112)
on: Wed Jan 19 01:07:01 EST 2000
Shankar, probably he had given "all" he had :-)and trying to "pop" something new. Let us hope it has a silver lining :-))
- From: MS (@ 129.252.22.112)
on: Wed Jan 19 01:08:28 EST 2000
neruppu, there must be sth in archives, I believe..
- From: Anand from Chennai (@ 202.54.34.82)
on: Wed Jan 19 05:23:00 EST 2000
Mathan,
Great response. Thank you very much on behalf IR fans.
Intha maathiri Aaatkal kaala kaalamaai ippadi IR raagathai sariyaaga use pannavillai enru sollikondu irrukirrargal.
Long time back IR had answered in an interview :
"Naan indha indha paatu indha indha raagathil potirukkaen enru sonnaenaa ? Yaaro ethaiyo ninaichukkittu appuram athu sariyillai idthu sariyillai enru solvathu eppadi niyaayam ? "
Most of the half-baked creatures use the word 'Raga swaroopam' - they think that it is great to talk about something which the mass does not understand.
Quote from Sindhu Bhairavi :
"Sadjamam enbathum Dhaivatham enbathum Panja parambaraikk-appuramthaan "
- From: Anand from Chennai (@ 202.54.34.82)
on: Wed Jan 19 05:24:37 EST 2000
Sorry . typo -
pls read
" on behalf of IR fans "
- From: p.k.sundaresan (@ bay-70.pppmad.vsnl.net.in)
on: Wed Jan 19 07:52:22 EST 2000
I feel sorry for Mr.Anand.he seems to know well about the ragas handled by IR but alas his analysis is pathetic! Even to day The songs from "payanangal mudivathillai" "nizhalgal" which are 2 decades old still enchant us.Even if we take the 90's the songs from ejaman, kizhakku vasal, veera, keladi kanmani, nandavana these are going to stand the test of time.
but if one wants to hoe ARR composes his songs to day, it is very good copy and mixing of 2 to 3 lines from different old songs either in the pallavi or in charanam especially of MSV's.
as regards his ability to polish the ragas - we all know what the famous critic 'Subbudu' said of "ennavale adi ennavalle'- the raga changes every phrase.generally in many of his numbers the transition from charanam back to pallavi is very laboured.compare! Minsarrankanna vs rathiriyil poothirrukkum, azhagana rakshasiye vs chinnakannan azhikkiran- to name a few. has anybody composed 'lathangi' better than in Thogai ilamayil? or nalinaganthi better than in "endan nenjil nee paadum"
We can just go on exploding the myth of ARR so called virtuosity.
thanks
sundar
- From: SENTHILKUMAR (@ 203.197.154.239)
on: Wed Jan 19 09:50:01 EST 2000
MADAN UNGALAI APPIDIYE KATTI PIDICHI ORU MUTHAM KUDUKKA THONUTHU.
SUPER MOOKUDAIPPU.THANKS A LOT.
-SENTHIL
- From: Vijanth (@ conpc007.ee.qub.ac.uk)
on: Wed Jan 19 10:17:36 EST 2000
Madhan ,
I think this thread initiated by Anand but your
response sound like the feed back by the others.
No one is looking at the topic all are just looking at Madhan response and answer.
Any way Ravi can please paste in Madhan
marvelous response if you have not delete it.
S , mothai enna solla thenga please, don't start OK. Then unngalaku Anand nethi addi pool than
Careful..I feel like it is a joke actually.
Cheers
- From: Then Isai Thendral DEVA (@ 63.81.9.66)
on: Wed Jan 19 10:55:46 EST 2000
Always IR Vs ARR...how come no1 looks into my songs??
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