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Has ARR ever been inspired by IR?

Topic started by Responsible_Critic (@ 160.231.1.20) on Wed Feb 21 17:14:21 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi Guys:

Listen to this Telugu Song composed by IR ( I am not sure if this was dubbed in Tamil ) - it's from Surya IPS. This came in 1990

http://64.81.35.203/songs/SuryaIPS_Hattiri.ram

Listen to the Kadhalan Song by ARR ( I am giving the link to telugu version of it - check the tamil one if you want )

http://64.81.35.203/songs/Premikudu_Andamaina.ram

Let the song start, wait and relax to enjoy the similarities.

If there are any such inspirations - let's discuss.

BTW, this thread is not intended to prove that everybody copies from IR. But just curious...

Responsible Critic

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.171) on: Fri Feb 23 06:39:11 EST 2001
  
  S!
  The other day my son took a mouth organ & tried to make sounds (he doesn't know how to play)...the very first sound he made was exactly `porAlE ponnuththAyee':-) Must be one of those simplest of sequences...should someone of ARR's calibre get inspired to create this?
  
  
• From: Raaja Rasikan (@ 210.212.249.39) on: Fri Feb 23 07:54:41 EST 2001
  
  Hi Friends, what about the song Mustafa Mustafa...it has the same beats as in a commercial 'Bacardi Rum' I dunno which came first...:)
  
  Raaja Rasikan
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.20) on: Fri Feb 23 09:07:25 EST 2001
  
  Here’s an Intellectual Inspiration…
  
  Raja’s HTNI have explored the raga transition between MayamalavaGowlai, SimhendraMadhyam, SindhuBhairavi, Kalyani and HamsaDhwani, and Keeravani.
  IR laid foundations as to how one can write a score with these transitions and churn out new tunes. Looks like Raja left it open enough for the creativity of young MDs to play around in this structure.
  
  ARR seems to have been inspired…Yengae Yenathu Kavithai song in KanduKonde KanduKonde plays around in the structure mentioned above.
  
  Intro – Chorus Humming in KeeraVani Raga
  Pallavi – SindhuBhairavi Raga
  1st Charanam - SimhendraMadhyam
  2nd Interlude - Kalyani
  2nd Charanam – SimhendraMadhyamam
  ( There’s a humming in HamsaDhwani by Hariharan )
  Back to Pallavi in SindhuBhairavi
  Ends with a Chorus chanting Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Da Ni Sa
  Which is in MayamalavaGowlai
  
  The transition between the ragas by stopping on particular swara and traverse around it to create a mood to transit into the next logical raga. This is what I mean the foundation by IR all about.
  
  Raja’s experiments are like Parametrized Applications – Like applets we can proudly call them as Songlets/orchestralets. Take an instance of them and customize them for a specific behavior.
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.20) on: Fri Feb 23 09:10:56 EST 2001
  
  He experimented a lot with MayamalavaGowlai and SimhendraMadhyam...He uses grahabhedam to transit
  which is being used perfectly in the above mentioned song. Good effort.
  
  For instance...
  Take MayamalavaGowlai, consider playing Ma as Sa in the same raga...you get SimhendraMadhamam...
  similarly kalyani and keeravani can be extracted from them...
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ 213.11.117.254) on: Fri Feb 23 10:46:46 EST 2001
  
  RC: I Don't agree at all with your Raga combination in the Ragas of Enge Enadhu Kavidhai. They are:
  
  Sindhubairavhi
  Sarasangi, then Lathangi
  Aalap by SRINIVAS(not Hariharan) in LATHANGI and ending in KEERAVANI.....going Sa Ri Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni......the chorus does not reach the top Sadjam!!!!!
  
  I don't understand where you got MAYAMALAGOWLA and SIMENDHRAMADHYAMAM from!!!!!
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.20) on: Fri Feb 23 11:22:49 EST 2001
  
  GOOD - Thanks for your Explanation...I humbly respect your knowledge and I will be glad to discuss further on this point...In the process even If it's corrected...I accept but let's keep it going...
  
  let's get onto Lathangi, Sarasangi, simhendramadhyamam and mayamalavagowlai - which one of them?
  
  Come over guys, share ur knowledge and analysis...I know there are lot of talents here...
  
  RC
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.20) on: Fri Feb 23 12:00:07 EST 2001
  
  My Incremental Analysis follows...
  
  Towards the end of first interlude, there's a chorus chanting
  Sa Ni Da Pa Ma Pa Da Ni
  Sa Ni Da Pa Ma Pa Da Ni
  Sa Ni Da Pa Ma Pa Da Ni
  Sa Re Ga Ri Ga Ri Sa -
  yes this is the only Sarasangi...
  
  Well at the end the chorus goes to the top sadjam and it's MayamalavaGowlai - Re Ga Ma Pa Da Ni Sa. Before the Chorus Starts, there's a Bang by Some String Kind of Instrument which plays Sadjam which really puts you into MayaMalavaGowlai Scale and then the chorus sings...The chorus stands on Nishadham for a long time and then say a short note of Top Sadjam.
  
  Rest of my Observation remains the Same...
  
  More to follow
  - Aalap why it's hamsadhwani.
  - Is Charanam pure SimhendraMadhyamam.
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.20) on: Fri Feb 23 12:43:16 EST 2001
  
  Is something wrong with this thread? I see that this is being pushed to the last.
  
  Can't we be open to discuss, share and enjoy our music.
  
  
• From: Fliflo (@ 146.186.113.254) on: Fri Feb 23 12:57:20 EST 2001
  
  RC;
  
  I fell this happens automatically and no body does it purposefully. Don't worry!
  
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ 213.11.117.254) on: Thu Mar 1 09:00:25 EST 2001
  
  RC: The bit you speak of goes from Sarasangi into Latangi - the MADHYAMAM changes to the Pradhi Madhyamam - For the words starting 'Maalai Andhigalil Madhin Sandhangalil' - Certainly NOT Mayamalagoula. I still cannot hear any Simhendramadhyamam..... Where do you hear this?
  
  Where do you hear the Hamsadwani? It is a derivative of Latangi, so you may be catching the Sa Ri Ga Pa Ni Sa, but listen carefully for the rest of the notes. I take it you are not farmiliar with Latangi?
  
  Here is a breakdown of this song:
  
  virai vandhavudan nilaa vandhavudan nilaa vandhadhenRu uLLam thuLLum
  nizhal kaNdavudan neeyenRu indha nenjam nenjam minnum
  virai vandhavudan nilaa vandhavudan nilaa vandhadhenRu uLLam thuLLum
  nizhal kaNdavudan neeyenRu indha nenjam nenjam minnum - SINDHUBAIRAVHI
  
  engae enadhu kavidhai kanavilae ezhudhi madiththa kavidhai (2)
  vizhiyil karaindhuvittadhaa ammammaa vidiyal azhiththuvittadhaa
  kavidhai thaediththaarungaL illai en kanavai meettuth thaarungaL SINDHUBAIRAVHI
  
  engae enadhu kavidhai kanavilae ezhudhi madiththa kavidhai (2) SINDHUBAIRAVHI
  
  Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma(1) Pa Dha Ni
  Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma(1) Pa Dha Ni
  Sa Ni Dha Pa Ma(1) Pa Dha Ni
  Ni Ri Ga Ri Ga Ri Sa Ni SARASANGI
  
  maalai andhigaLil manadhin sandhugaLil tholaindha mugaththa manam thaedudhae
  Veyil Thaar urugum nagara veedhigaLil maiyal kondu malar vaadudhae
  maegam sindhum iru thuLiyin idaiveLiyil thuruvith thuruvi unaith thaedudhae
  udaiyum nuraigaLilum tholaindha kaadhalanai urugi urugi manam thaedudhae
  azhagiya thirumugam orudharam paarththaal amaidhiyil niRaindhiruppaen
  nuniviral kondu orumuRai theeNda nooRu muRai piRandhiruppaen LATANGI
  
  virai vandhavudan nilaa vandhavudan nilaa vandhadhenRu uLLam thuLLum
  nizhal kaNdavudan neeyenRu indha nenjam nenjam minnum
  virai vandhavudan nilaa vandhavudan nilaa vandhadhenRu uLLam thuLLum
  nizhal kaNdavudan neeyenRu indha nenjam nenjam minnum SINDHUBAIRAVHI
  
  engae enadhu kavidhai kanavilae ezhudhi madiththa kavidhai (2) SINDHUBAIRAVHI
  
  orae paarvai ada orae vaarththai ada orae thodudhal manam vaeNdudhae
  muththam poadhum andha moochchin veppam adhu niththam vaeNdum enRu vaeNdudhae
  vaervai pooththa undha sattai vaasam inRu ottum enRu manam aeNgudhae
  mugam pooththirukkum mudiyil onRirandu kuththum inbam kannam kaetkudhae
  kaetkudhae... LATANGI
  paaRaiyil seydhadhum en manam enRu thoazhikku solliyirundhaen
  paaRaiyin idukkil vaervitta kodiyaay nee nenjil muLaiththuvittaay LATANGI
  
  engae enadhu kavidhai kanavilae ezhudhi madiththa kavidhai (2) SINDHUBAIRAVHI
  
  Humming Sa Ri Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni KEERAVANI
  
  
  
• From: SK (@ 203.197.141.190) on: Thu Mar 1 10:18:39 EST 2001
  
  I have not understood this to an extend but it seems to be very interesting. I feel that I can learn a lot.
  
  Guys..Keep going.
  
  
• From: RC (@ 160.231.1.20) on: Thu Mar 1 13:07:43 EST 2001
  
  Geetha:
  
  You're absolutely right. I humbly accept my mistake. It goes from Sarasangi to Lathangi. But Pratimadhyamam is not the deciding factor between SimhendraMadhyamam and Lathangi - it's the Gandharam.
  
  Re:"I take it you are not farmiliar with Latangi?"
  "The bit you speak of goes from Sarasangi into Latangi - the MADHYAMAM changes to the Pradhi Madhyamam "
  
  Well I missed the Gandharam usage in the charanam ( it touches only once ). Should I say you're not familiar that SimhendraMadhyamam has PratiMadhyamam in it:-)) Just Kidding.
  
  Guys, Latangi is 63 Melakartha and SimhendraMadhyamam is 57 Melakartha. The only difference is the gandharam in each.
  
  Humming still sounds like Hamsadhwani:-))
  
  Thanks for your Explanation. It is a wonderful job done by ARR. Finally I am still not convinced if ARR has not intellectually inspired from IR in this song:-))
  
  Regards,
  RC
  
  
• From: rajaG (@ 208.24.179.207) on: Thu Mar 1 15:01:34 EST 2001
  
  Geetha and RC - Excellent discussion! Please keep it going.
  
  Geetha - Welcome and please continue to share your knowledge.
  
  
• From: doubters (@ 203.199.237.48) on: Fri Mar 2 00:24:28 EST 2001
  
  warning: ignorance
  -----------------
  I'm really curious, would ARR have gone so much into micro-arrangement of ragas for this very ordinary song? Isn't this something of a reverse-engineering you people are attempting through your analysis?
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.177) on: Fri Mar 2 07:21:42 EST 2001
  
  What do you mean `very ordinary song'?? Please let everyone know your criteria for extraordinary song....
  
  engE enadhu kavidhai is one of those rare beauties from ARR...very native...I used to say `IRish' thanks to the overall effect it creates...
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ 213.11.117.254) on: Fri Mar 2 07:32:19 EST 2001
  
  RC: As per you comment
  
  "Well I missed the Gandharam usage in the charanam ( it touches only once ). Should I say you're not familiar that SimhendraMadhyamam has PratiMadhyamam in it:-)) Just Kidding."
  
  I am more than farmiliar with SimhendraMadhyamam, hence note that is not present in the songs at all. I never said that "But Pratimadhyamam is not the deciding factor between SimhendraMadhyamam and Lathangi - it's the Gandharam." I said that the transition b/w LATANGI and SARANGI is the MADHYAMAM!!!!!
  
  
  
• From: Geetha (@ 213.11.117.254) on: Fri Mar 2 09:58:42 EST 2001
  
  In terms of Simhendramadhyamam, there are 2 IR classics, Kaatrodu Kuzlalin naadhamo and Nee Pournami En Nenjile.
  
  Cheers RajaG
  
  

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