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MSV and ARR - THE ONLY LEGENDARY COMPOSERS FOR TFM TO CHERISH!

Topic started by Kumar (@ 202.9.169.42) on Fri May 4 11:04:06 EDT 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

The melodies of MSV are longlived and cherished even today as new. They sound fresh.
ARR, though young in age can be considered as a current day counterpart in composing songs intact with melody, well orchestrated to the mood, giving importance to the lyrical content, the same way MSV did then! I think there is a similarity between the two geniuses.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: observer (@ 144.92.164.198) on: Thu May 10 16:15:19 EDT 2001
  
  I think the topic being discussed now is more interesting than the title of this thread.
  
  My main problem with critical opinions is that they never match what I feel, although they are supposed to reflect in technical terms what one feels.
  
  Examples:
  
  1. raja kaiya vecha - every critic praises this song as having 5-part arrangements - IMHO, its a lousy song.
  
  2. KKKK - this album has totally lifeless melodies (again strictly IMO), people say it is a breakthrough in ARR's career. Same story with Muthalvan.
  
  3. Bharati - same story
  
  4. With MSV, I have listened to some of the so-called great songs of his (as defined by critics) available in dhool, made no impression.
  
  Just to clarify that I am no casual listener, let me assert that I listen extensively to Carnatic and Western classical music and of late, listen to film music only once in a while.
  
  IMNSHO, film music is a waste of time - it is inherently light and so no one should be professionally into it - they should only do it when they are bored with their other pursuits. Or they should bring it out of the realms of light music.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Thu May 10 16:24:37 EDT 2001
  
  
  problem with critical opinions is that they never match what I feel -- you are also a critic then.. :)
  
  thanks for reminding my athers statement...
  "film music is a waste of time"... :)
  
  Swamiji, please answer my question,
  mavane..unna udArtha illai..ininKi.. :)
  
  
• From: observer (@ 144.92.164.198) on: Thu May 10 16:33:39 EDT 2001
  
  problem with critical opinions is that they never match what I feel -- you are also a critic then..
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  
  Well, I'm certainly a critic of critics. But what I meant by critic is one who knows enough about music.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu May 10 16:39:05 EDT 2001
  
  Comment:
  Cadence is like a pause or a "pronunciation mark" in poetry. Half cadence is not the end but just a temporary pause, but a full cadence is like a full stop. In WCM of 20th century, you have something called a perfect cadence. It means it ends with a V(7)/I progression or V7 / i (or in the scale of C, it is G(7)/C or G(7) / Cm). I think a cadence has to do little with chord changes.
  Also, you need not compromise on a melody at all. Although some composers (esp. IR) like to "flower" the melodies with a good harmonic backing - so it sounds like all the emphasis on a cadence is on a chord progression. When you compose, you don't employ strict chord rules like "How can I get the melody notes to agree with this chord?? - change the melody!!" - which is how u have been seeing it. No, this is not true. Don't see chords as one "block" of notes, but just split them into its counterparts. Make them move smoothly harmonically with melody!! There you go, you have a chord progression. Of course, you dont move notes like crazy, but follow simple rules like moving the root / third/ fifth following a cycle. This is one technique to make it smooth. When you do this ofcoure, you will be demanded to make chords with "imperfect" intervals - like a diminished or a sustain. Always remember to resolve them into their closest perfect major/minor. Or do substitutions. Actually, a lot has been written on this subject, and I am just telling you what I learnt. This way u can arrange for any melody you want. If you follow more stricter melody based on harmony, you will have a more "western" sounding voice thats all.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Thu May 10 16:45:28 EDT 2001
  
  more "western" sounding voice --- means what ?
  
  
• From: Swwamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu May 10 16:49:05 EDT 2001
  
  Which sounds like "church" music. You know what i mean.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Thu May 10 16:50:43 EDT 2001
  
  so my point is reached :) I am trying to do "indian" music . :)
  
  swamiji call me if you could.:)
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.201) on: Thu May 10 16:59:41 EDT 2001
  
  Call u in the evening man. This is tiring.
  
  
• From: comment (@ 12.5.10.153) on: Thu May 10 17:06:32 EDT 2001
  
  ok,discussion closed for the day...:)
  
  
• From: R (@ 172.136.106.124) on: Thu May 10 17:26:45 EDT 2001
  
  Swamiji, whatever i had stated have fetched me something to learn in return..however dont mistake me for a "poet" who can and wants to talk music only in terms of words . what i meant by the exercise in futility was the equation of standards for appreciation of music..i dont refute that form & grammar makes music what it is ( to a great extent )..but the appreciation/discussion about it in technical terms is too out of bounds for people for want of capability or the basic need to think and analyze etc ..but they neednt be derided for that reason..after all not the world isnt full of thinkers..there are "feelers" too..that was the point i was trying to make..! anyway thanks again for some interesting insights...
  
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu May 10 17:37:11 EDT 2001
  
  I think the Amateur Composers here...Swamiji and Kiru etc.. have really given me and all the other readers and contributors here a very good piece of education...I am sure that we all appreciate that and look forward to many more such sessions..BUT there has been a gross injustice been done.."Aiyya, enakku oru unmai theringe aavannum !"... :)
  
  I again went through all the postings here...and found that we have knowingly or unknowingly hurt a fellow-contributor which I'm sure was not our aim...TREND..has stopped bcos of the exchange between him and Kiru....which I feel Kiru shouldn't have spoken in a high and mighty way...
  
  Kiru - you may have more knowledge in music than us but remember this is FILM music..."film"...get that..not science...and it is for the masses and u have hurt a "music rasika" which can constitute to a sin..because misusing the God-given talent of music creativity not to cherish but to harm...so please apologise here in the Spirit of Sport..and let's have Trend back (he may be a ARR/TFM fan like me but I would have done this same posting for anybody else...I'm sure the contributors all will agree...no need to get personal at all when discussing music. :)...I add FILM music.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu May 10 17:41:01 EDT 2001
  
  THIS WAS TREND'S LAST POSTING :
  
  
  UV,
  
  I will take your viewpoint and I have a feeling everyone else feel that way.So I won't post anymore.I think that makes everyone happy.
  
  Kiru & Swamiji,
  
  If you thought of responding please don't.
  
  
• From: R (@ 172.136.106.124) on: Thu May 10 17:54:14 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician, i agree with you 100 % ! Come back Trend ! being an ARR fan isnt a sin after all !
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Thu May 10 17:57:16 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician,
  
  Digression:
  
  Thanks for your support.I thought the thread looked a lot better for the last two days.
  
  Anyway,I'm going to India tomorrow and will be back after three weeks.After that To post or not will be my question?:)
  
  
  
• From: comment (@ 65.9.136.158) on: Thu May 10 18:03:04 EDT 2001
  
  cosmician enna ututingale ;)
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Thu May 10 18:03:25 EDT 2001
  
  good finally trend learnt his limitations ;-)
  
  comment: a quick reply. my posting was only after your complete postings. i clearly said that appreciation is different from a close critical analysis. enjoyment is always a matter of the heart but analysis is of the brain.
  
  also, as pointed out by swamiji, structure is there even if don't want to see. i completely agree that carnatic music is inherently improvisational unlike wcm but that doesn't mean there is no form to it. anyways, got to go home and listen to tns's rtp in sindhubhairavi :-) ciao.
  
  
• From: kiruvin naNban (@ 207.188.29.248) on: Thu May 10 18:12:10 EDT 2001
  
  Dear Mr.Cosmician
  
  U said " I again went through all the postings here...and found that we have knowingly or unknowingly hurt a fellow-contributor which I'm sure was not our aim...TREND..has stopped bcos of the exchange between him and Kiru....which I feel Kiru shouldn't have spoken in a high and mighty way... "
  
  Better go thro "ALL" (not this thread alone) the threads with both your EYES Opened.........
  
  Wherever (Mostly) Kiru has given his opinion, just for the sake, our friend Mr.Trend has instigated him..........
  
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu May 10 18:20:41 EDT 2001
  
  >>>>cosmician, i agree with you 100 % ! Come back Trend ! being an ARR fan isnt a sin after all !<<<<
  
  ...Or bcos 10 people together shout "IR !" it doesn't become so ! {^_~}
  
  >>>cosmician enna ututingale ;)<<<
  
  Comment..sorry...neenga commentaddichiye konnuteenga !! :)
  
  >>good finally trend learnt his limitations ;-)<<
  
  ...I think I finally see the light..there seems to be a polarization between learned musicians and music appreciators....but as long as you learned musicians can't vibrate my heart strings or for that matter strike a chord with the masses...consider yourselves a failure...and you can't do away with the "music unlettered" like us..
  
  We will be there (here) to irritate you with our sincere ignorance and dumbness and see to it that you become humble and understand that "Art is Humanity" in today's world ! :)
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu May 10 18:23:08 EDT 2001
  
  Happy Hols..Trend :)
  
  And pls do post again..I'm sure that Swamiji, Kiru, Comment, Arulcaran can't do without us...life becomes dull u know....and more the merrier !!!
  
  
• From: UVII (@ 63.224.65.186) on: Thu May 10 18:31:52 EDT 2001
  
  some teasers ...NOM
  
  Trend will be out of Trend after 3 weeks.
  Trend will miss the Trend.
  Trend goes to India, and later after three weeks Trend leaves India.
  ARR finally sees Trend.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu May 10 18:33:11 EDT 2001
  
  Kiruvin Nanban...i give u the same reply....
  
  ...I think I finally see the light..there seems to be a polarization between learned musicians and music appreciators....but as long as you learned musicians can't vibrate my heart strings or for that matter strike a chord with the masses...consider yourselves a failure...and you can't do away with the "music unlettered" like us..
  
  We will be there (here) to irritate you with our sincere ignorance and dumbness and see to it that you become humble and understand that "Art is Humanity" in today's world ! :)
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.130) on: Thu May 10 18:35:21 EDT 2001
  
  UVII..
  
  Add this...and finally
  
  "IR realises the Trend !" :)
  
  (sorry guys...hangin around here still..got nuthin' better 2 do..might as well do this !
  
  

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