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IR or ARR

Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.

Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?

Regards,
Anand

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Fri Apr 7 17:20:39 EDT 2000
  
  Nice reading it!!
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ esboaah.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri Apr 7 17:23:41 EDT 2000
  
  Did u guys chat here? Too bad one of u is out of sight. who may i take is the winner here?
  
  
• From: clarification (@ host2.cvs.aa.net) on: Fri Apr 7 17:24:02 EDT 2000
  
  btw:
  MS has been real editor here...
  
  
  yes, he is good very artist, I learnt lot from him, i learnt from him lots about drum programming
  
  he as 3 avatars,
  1. carnatic music
  2, hard core rock/film music
  3. Western classical music.
  
  he knows allthe 3 well,
  
  --- I am referning here to Guitar parasana,not vidhyasagar.
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ esboaah.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri Apr 7 17:25:10 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth are u still there?
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net) on: Fri Apr 7 17:26:03 EDT 2000
  
  yes
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ esboaah.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri Apr 7 17:27:05 EDT 2000
  
  wazzup! did u complete your album?
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ host2.cvs.aa.net) on: Fri Apr 7 17:29:51 EDT 2000
  
  krish, do you have an yahoo msgr are msn msgs,
  sorry we are not supposed to chat here.
  email me at d_Srikanth@yahoo.com
  
  
  
• From: krishnamurthy (@ esboaah.ceatlabs.okstate.edu) on: Fri Apr 7 17:33:03 EDT 2000
  
  keep your pager open, i will see you there. By the way, just for the sake of a conversation, i LOVE ilayaraja's music..but I wont compare the two and waste my time.
  
  
• From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.26.235) on: Fri Apr 7 17:36:35 EDT 2000
  
  Then you are a misfit in DF Krishnamurthy :-) It seems the main theme of DF itself is IR vs ARR :-) (NOM)
  
  
• From: ihih:-( (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Fri Apr 7 17:52:02 EDT 2000
  
  vElai,
  
  not only are you a vElaiyaththavan, you posted this whole thing and (because of your name) made me (an many others) read this and made us all vElaiyaththavan(L)s.
  
  sigh! private-A kUda intha saNdai OyAdhA.
  
  (and to top it all muqqAblA! sigh! sigh! sigh!)
  
  
• From: ThilluMullu (@ espresso.cc.iastate.edu) on: Fri Apr 7 18:22:14 EDT 2000
  
  enakku indha raagam, swaram idhu ellam theriyadhu.. I have been listening to music for the past 10 years. When I listen to a Raaja song it is totally different.. I'm not saying all his songs.. but there are no parallels to some of his songs..
  
  as for ARR I don't den he can compose but paatunna.. eppavum keekra pola irukkanum.. adhu arr paata vuda ir paata dhaan enakku kidachudhu.. I'm not biased against one of them but just stating - "en manasukku adhu sari'nu paatudho adhen solren"
  
  Anandha - u started saying in your first para.. there seem to be many anti ARR fans and in the next para what u did was turned yourself into a AntiIR fan your sentence starts- "Let me tell you blah blah..blah.." - thappu pa.. thappu..
  
  naan mela sonna sugam silarukku ARR songs kettu kidaikalam.. aaana enakku appidi illa.. and indha forumla irukra neraya perukkum appidi illa..
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: sabesan (@ ws-209-233-228-254.webvangroup.com) on: Fri Apr 7 19:14:34 EDT 2000
  
  by the way Aatamaa was a flop? who told it was a flop.... no way.... it was a major hit in the movie Captain Prabakaran....
  
  
• From: Athi (@ netcache32.mot.com) on: Fri Apr 7 21:19:40 EDT 2000
  
  Rakkamma was a major hit and Veerapandi Kottaiyele was a miserable flop. Anyway for ARR,
  when the movie doesn't run(like Thiruda Thiruda),
  he will not be blamed while when the movie runs,
  he will be the primary reason and be glorified everywhere and all the magazines will carry his
  interview where he will talk in down to earth way attributing everything to god(ofcourse he should really attribute it to all those sources from where he reuses and recycles !!!)
  
  For IR, if the movie runs, he will not be given any credit and if it doesn't, he will be blamed for everything.
  
  That is the reason I guess ARR works only with big names in the industry and avoids newcomers. Ofcourse all his movies with the new comers have flopped very badly(ofcourse he will not be blamed for that as stated previously).
  
  It seems IR took a very less salary for a low budget movie in 1980 (Source: Hindu). Will ARR
  think of doing that? For him all that matters is
  the crores(and may be something additional for Sabesh Murali to compose BGM). Ofcourse Sabesh gets some recycled ideas for his brother Deva in this way and no wonder Deva composes for more movies every year now !!!
  
  ARR must be congratulated for his enviromental awareness in recycling everything (!!!).
  
  Athi
  
  
  
  
• From: Neel (@ ts005d17.har-ct.concentric.net) on: Fri Apr 7 21:44:17 EDT 2000
  
  Let us not be so hard on ARR. The man does have talent. He has scored some nice songs. But he really needs to change his style. There is this trend to make universal movies (manirathnam, kamalahaasan) and universal music (arr, of course). They all recycle, try to appeal to the entire nation (sometimes world) and hence lack originality (manirathnam and kamal fans, please leave me alone). ARR has been very successful with this trend but in the process he has alienated many traditional tamil music listeners.
  
  
• From: Athi (@ ip229.schiller-park8.il.pub-ip.psi.net) on: Sat Apr 8 01:54:21 EDT 2000
  
  Neel,
  
  I can accept your comments on Manirathnam and
  so he likes to have ARR as MD for all his movies.Ofcourse he is on the verge of losing his
  market because of that. One more flop and manirathnam will start focusing on TV or will
  become a producer(he has made enough money
  through his recycling already !).
  
  What exactly did you mean by Kamal recycling? I think he has been inspired by hollywood a lot but even there he has tried to adapt the story to the indian conditions.
  
  And ARR can never change his style as he doesn't have anything new besides recycling. Ofcourse he comes to US etc frequently to get new ideas by listening to all the pop songs. Even Deva gets to know some of the latest knowledge(!!!) that ARR gains thro' Sabesh Murali. Main reason for ARR's success is marketing and hype. Also working with big banners who will do whatever they can to promote him(since they have paid him crores and will have to recover the cost !).
  
  Athi
  
  
• From: Raghupathy (@ m14.chn.vsnl.net.in) on: Sat Apr 8 05:24:37 EDT 2000
  
  hi all,
  
  i want to make clear one point. ir is a musician by birth where as arr is a musician by profession.dont compare both of them.ir is genius arr is talented. can arr give a hit album combining with ramarajan and some junk lyricist.
  none of his albums with newcomers is a hit. ir's re-recording is feast which one can relish. but when seeing an arr film in theatre i felt so many times that, he really has instruments shortage. 30% of arr bgm is pure howling by his chorous.
  
  regds
  Raghupathy
  
  
• From: Vijay Venkatraman J (@ 203.197.154.36) on: Sat Apr 8 11:26:09 EDT 2000
  
  INTERNATIONAL COMEDY:
  --------------------
  ARR says in this week's Kungumam (9/4/2000):
  "Naan yaarudaya paadalgalayum copy adikkavillai! Hindi MD'd thaan ennai patri kurai sollikkonde EN ISAIYAIK COPY ADIKKIRAARGAL"
  Means : I nver copied from anyone but all the Hindi MD's who criticize me saying that I am recycling are copying my music!
  Further he swears that : "Naan yaarai paarthum copy adikkalai" angrily!
  
  NB : Subbudu's remark on ARR's Direct Lift of some song in Sangamam - Rahman seidhadhu nyayama endru avaraye ketkiren and he refers some Bengali song and asks ARR for nyayam!!! Little knowing the level of the Copycat!
  God should save Tamil rasigargal from these people!
  Vedhanayudan,
  Vijay.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.26.235) on: Sat Apr 8 13:17:09 EDT 2000
  
  Athi:
  
  Thiruda thiruda was a miserable flop - agreed. But ARR had done his job to perfection in that movie. The music is simply mindblowing. Whether it appeals to your or not is a different question. All the songs in that movie had an amazingly new dimension added to the TFM.
  
  HAve you ever stopped to wonder how good a composition is "puththamputhu boomi" ? I stand by my words that our predetermined hatred towards an MD has a lot to do in evaluating his works.
  
  Market and hype ? oh..yeah..and ARR does not have anything to deliver impressively ? All the magazines cannot be making fools out of themselves ! We may think differently from the rest of the world, but not about facts. The usage of guitar in AlaipaayuthE songs is probably one of the very new phases in his music.
  
  There are many good points to be noted from Srikanth's discussion. 2 are:
  
  (1) Usage of rhythm structure
  (2) unconventional tunes
  
  Did you have a chance to listen to "kaathal sadugudu" ? How about "kaaththu kaaththu" from uzavan ? These are some apt examples for (1). For (2) take the case of "ennuyirE ennuyirE" from uyirE. There is totally different face for the raggam VaguLAbaranam (Courtesy :SL).
  
  Nobody denies IR's talents. Similar must be the attitude with ARR too, is my humble suggestion.
  
  Regards
  
  MS
  
  
• From: Neel (@ ts004d43.har-ct.concentric.net) on: Sat Apr 8 16:54:25 EDT 2000
  
  True. Songs from Thiruda Thiruda were very nice and very different. ARR did create a big wave when he came into TFM. He didn't get this far without talent. It is not fair of us to compare a young musician with the old masters. Puttham pudhu bhoomi was a nice song. But I can't help being reminded of Yanni when I listen to it. Coincidence? May be... or not.
  I still am proud of him for being known around the world whether I like all his music or not.
  
  

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