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Raga of song please

Topic started by Gopal Prasad (@ greed.cs.umass.edu) on Sat May 17 07:42:45 EDT 1997.
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List | Indian Classical Music Forum

Hindi Raaga of Songs Thread

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Fri Mar 30 12:38:18 EST 2001
  
  sindhuja: my guess to your question is: look at the chord movement (ex., a I-V-I is more common (and more robust!) ) than I-IV-I; this gives away the key (=tonic=shruthi) of the song. i think the song andhimazhai is in ramani (panthuvarALi without ri). you might want to take a look at the excellent articles written by hari govindan at http://www.raajangahm.com/music.html and http://www.raajangahm.com/music2.html .
  
  
• From: sindhuja (@ 203.197.181.63) on: Sat Mar 31 06:49:55 EST 2001
  
  aruLaracan ,
  thanx for the wonderful information.
  i'm a western music illiterate.please explain the term "tonic" to me.
  the write-up in the site was really good, but i'm still not too clear as to what exactly the criterion for deciding the raaga of a song is.(like vasantha sounds like ramani in a different pitch).
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.3.188.143) on: Sat Mar 31 16:00:05 EST 2001
  
  sindhuja - in simpler terms - if you are familiar with carnatic music, this explanation might help you - this would be sruthi bedham - you move the tonic note (aadhaara shatjam) of a raga to get other ragas. Let me try to explain this concept of Sruthi bedham with an example. Let us first take the scale of THODI. sa ri1 ga2 ma1 pa dha1 ni2 sa - sa ni2 dha1 pa ma1 ga2 ri1 sa
  
  If we move the tonic note from Thodi's shatjam to Thodi's Rishabam and keep that as Shatjam, the resulting raga would be KALYANI (we keep the rest of the notes of Thodi the same - thodi's ga would be kalyani's Ri, ma would be ga and so on.
  
  If we move the tonic note from Thodi's shatjam to Thodi's Gandharam and make that our shatjam, we would get Hari Khambodi.
  
  This would be the resulting raga set by moving Thodi's tonic notes - Thodi - Kalyani - Hari Khambodi - Nata Bhairavi - Shankarabharanam - Karaharapriya. (Note: A Sruthi Bedham on Thodi's panchamam would yield a ragam with two madhyamams!!)
  
  Another interesting combo would be the janya ragas - Mohanam, Madhyamavathi, Hindholam, Sudhdha Saaveri, Sudhdha Dhanyasi. - This is exactly why some ppl get confused with Sudhdha Dhanyasi and Hindolam in some movie songs!! (It could sound like both for his very reason)
  
  Now, to answer your question, we hear different ragas as the MD's tend to shift the tonic notes in the middle of a song. But the drums, tabla etc (I am told) are tuned to the aadhara shatjam of the originally "intended" ragam. This would be "officially" the raga of the song :)
  
  A Sruthi Bedham on the Madhyamam of vasantha yields Ramani (sa ga3 ma2 pa ni3 sa - sa ni3 dha1 pa ma2 ga3 sa)and looks like this is exactly what IR had in mind while composing "Andhi Mazhai"
  
  Hope this helps.... :-)
  
  
• From: sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.62) on: Sat Mar 31 22:29:47 EST 2001
  
  IR,
  i WAS quite well aware of shruthibedham.i just wanted to know how to decide which raaga a particular song is set in.so, you say that the drums etc. are set to the shadjamam and we must take that as the standard pitch(shruthi)?
  and...are you sure that ramani does not have Da in the aarohanam?
  
  
• From: Isav (@ ) on: Sun Apr 1 03:53:58 EDT 2001
  
  Do they the equivlaent of Sruthi Bedham in Western music?
  
  
• From: IR (@ 4.3.188.143) on: Sun Apr 1 09:10:49 EDT 2001
  
  sindhuja - "yes" to both!! else a simple sruthi bedam on vasantha would not yield Ramani (Sa ga ma dha ni sa (Vasantha) - Sa ga ma pa ni sa (Ramani))- I went into the details of sruthi bedham for ppl that might be interested...
  
  Isav - Modal shift of Tonic note / Chord Progression- may be - am not sure :-)
  
  
• From: sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.50) on: Sun Apr 1 11:50:17 EDT 2001
  
  IR,
  thanx for the reminder!silly of me not to have thought of it!(i'm talking about the aarohanam of ramani-if it had not been what you said,it would not have yielded vasantha in a diff. pitch)
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Sun Apr 1 16:49:03 EDT 2001
  
  IR: thanks for answering sindhujA.
  
  sindhujA: tonic = sadjam = key (different names for the same concept, afaik). yes, the percussions give away the key in most songs.
  
  isav: though scale is not exactly the same as shruthi (nor does it equal rAgam; it's more like pAlai as used in old tamil literature), scale changes are very common in western classical and other types of music. it is a "requirement" for any sonata/symphony and many pop, r/b songs have very good scale changes. as IR mentioned modal shift of the tonic is considered by many as a key-change (but there is always a group of people who don't accept it!).
  
  
• From: Velaiyaththavan (@ 129.252.222.2) on: Sun Apr 1 18:01:14 EDT 2001
  
  tonic = marundhu ?
  
  
• From: Jeyaram.g (@ 203.197.132.153) on: Mon Apr 2 13:18:07 EDT 2001
  
  Hi Neels / Others,
  
  1. Veru Idam Thedi Povalo... (VJ) looks definitely like Charukesi / Sarasangi mix. (more of Charukesi?).
  
  2. Sugamana Sindhanayil is a wonderful number by MSV on Bhoopalam. It is a masterpiece.
  
  3. THeertha Karaithanile is a marvellous number by IR on Karnaranjani (Janya of KH Priya).
  
  Jeyaram
  
  
• From: Jeyaram.G (@ 203.197.132.153) on: Mon Apr 2 13:42:49 EDT 2001
  
  Hi Ramaswamy,
  
  Can you come out with rare numbers of MSV ( complex to find the ragga) on the site?
  
  I think 'Partha Gnabagam' is on Keeravani.
  
  Pl get back
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 203.199.87.3) on: Tue Apr 3 02:34:11 EDT 2001
  
  Jayaram,
  Thanks. But do you think 'SugamAna Sindhanayil' is pure BhoopaLam? Consider the lines,
  
  'MaNakkOla MAngalyam' : pa dha2 pa sa sa
  'ini vERu edhu vENdum' : sa ri2 ga2 ri2 sa sa) and
  'mAlaigaL maNakkindrana' ends with Dha1.
  
  It has shades of SarasAngi and BhoopaLam. What say?
  
  Also, could you pl. give me the ArOhaNam and avarOhaNam of 'Karna ranjani'? Thanks.
  
  
• From: sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.85) on: Tue Apr 3 08:10:44 EDT 2001
  
  Neels,
  S R G M G P D S S N D P M G R S=Karna Ranjani,
  janyam of Karaharapriya
  
  
• From: Neels (@ 203.199.87.3) on: Wed Apr 4 04:46:34 EDT 2001
  
  Thanks Sindhuja.
  
  
• From: Jeyaram (@ 203.197.132.148) on: Fri Apr 6 13:39:31 EDT 2001
  
  Neels/Sindhuja/All,
  
  I do not know theory. Infact, I learn arohanam and avarohanam of K Ranjani from your postings.
  I go by feeling and comparison only.
  
  Thanks.
  
  I would like to know the raga of the unique song " Chandira Pirai Parthen..." (by VJ- film Kizhakkum Merkum Sandhikkindrana- Music MSV)
  . Looks like Shades of Sarasangi?
  
  Getback pl
  
  Jeyaram
  
  
• From: Isav (@ 203.199.220.79) on: Tue Apr 10 13:16:59 EDT 2001
  
  Jeyaram , this song seems to be in Kirvani
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.226.102) on: Wed Apr 11 03:48:10 EDT 2001
  
  sugamAna sinthanayil is a mixture of charukesi, sarasangi and bhoopalam, typical MSV stuff.
  chandira pirai pArththEn , when started with 'Sa' is more or less sinthu bharaivi and may show shades of Sarasangi when started with 'Pa'. This being an Islamic song, I am inclined to believe that it is 'Hanumathodi' with some SinthuBhairavi.
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.226.102) on: Wed Apr 11 03:50:03 EDT 2001
  
  A pure Sarasangi from MSV could be 'vEru idam thEdi pOvaLO' from 'sila nErangaLil sila manithargaL' (atleast out of whatever I remember of the tune).
  
  
• From: saketh@binghamton (@ 159.48.248.2) on: Wed Apr 11 10:31:14 EDT 2001
  
  1. Does 'Nil Nil Nil... Sol Sol Sol... enai vaattedhe..' from Paattu Paadava have shades of Pantuvarali?
  2. 'Kanna varuvaaya... Meera ketkiraal' from Manadhil Urudhi Vendum is based on Madhuvanthi right?
  Anybody?
  
  
• From: saketh@binghamton (@ 159.48.248.2) on: Wed Apr 11 10:45:13 EDT 2001
  
  i checked with the database, and looks like 'Kanna varuvaaya... Meera ketkiraal' from Manadhil Urudhi Vendum is not Madhuvanthi but it is gowrimanohari. well, can any of the experts confirm?
  
  
• From: Jeyaram (@ 202.54.35.166) on: Wed Apr 11 12:55:29 EDT 2001
  
  Kanna varuvala is Gowri manohari.
  
  SL,
  
  Pure Sarasangi number from MSV could be "KUdumbam Oru Kadhambam" from film of same name (sung by MSV himself). There is also one more old song on Sarasangi (should be late sixties / seventies ) by MSV , sung by PS ,"Thenralil Adai Pinna..." .
  Pl checkout.
  
  Can you explain which place in Sugamana Sindhaniyil... is like Charukesi.
  
  Thanks
  
  
• From: SL (@ 63.253.226.213) on: Wed Apr 11 18:24:47 EDT 2001
  
  Jeyaram, in the word 'varugindarana...' D1 and N2 are used and hence.
  
  'thendralil Adai pinna' touches D2 in the line 'andru nAn kuththalaththil...', but for the most part, it is sarasangi.
  
  Did you recieve my mail ?
  
  
• From: sumathy (@ 194.170.1.67) on: Sun Apr 15 05:28:37 EDT 2001
  
  hello.couldsomeone tell me the raga of Thendralvarum...from Friends.
  
  
• From: haris (@ 172.180.120.55) on: Sun Apr 15 22:38:23 EDT 2001
  
  whats' the raga of the song 'vatta nilavE' from the film ilayavan.(IR). the notes go as follows. s r 2m1 p d1 s. I'm not sure whether 'n' is used at all.
  
  also, what's the raga of the song 'pOtri pAdadi pennE' from dEvar magan.
  
  
• From: sindhuja (@ 203.197.176.38) on: Mon Apr 16 04:49:54 EDT 2001
  
  potri pAdadi ponne sounds like kApi...i remember the 1st line only though...
  
  
• From: kanna (@ 159.48.248.2) on: Mon Apr 16 10:39:37 EDT 2001
  
  does 'swasame...' from thenali have a hint of desh?
  
  
• From: saketh@binghamton (@ 159.48.248.2) on: Mon Apr 16 13:47:10 EDT 2001
  
  Does the song "Naan varava kanne... naan varava...vaaipirundha vandhu vaay tharava..." from Tajmahal have some Bhairavi in it.
  I know that this is not the start of the song and it seems to have some Bhairavi in it.
  
  
• From: Rajesh G (@ 199.168.32.7) on: Mon Apr 16 17:42:05 EDT 2001
  
  Hi,
  
  Can someone help me out in explaining how to convert a piece of music from keyboard to PC (MIDI fundas) ? I know this is not the appropriate place for this question. You can answer thru' mail. Thanks in advance,
  
  

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