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Is Rahman Village, Carnatic and Background Musically Challenged?

Topic started by Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.73.97) on Sun Oct 29 01:31:55 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

A great music director should be known for his/her trick on all trades when it comes to music. But AR Rahman is good only in recording crystal clear music. As far other areas are concerned he had failed miserably. Listen to all his village oriented songs same type of digital music. Even Deva and SAR do better job than him. What about BGM he plays the songs repeatedly. Deva does a better job atleast copying from Titanic or BraveHeart. What happened to songs based out of Raagas there also he lacks knowledge. What about his singing style man. Drs recommend his "Vandemataram" to clear Constibation than bringing out patriotism.

Discuss this fake, self promoting and copying star and remove his masquerade.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Karthik (@ 129.188.33.221) on: Mon Oct 30 16:25:21 EST 2000
  
  Srikanth, whether you agree with it or not, "Ammadi Ponnukku Thanga Manasu" is far far inferior to the stuff that IR - BR combo churned out in their prime. Summa arguementkkaga pesadheenga. I am sure you will give me a big lesson now about chords in the song and stuff. Summa asking people to define folk music etc. is just a way of obfuscating things... why dont you go ahead and define each genre of music for us?
  
  I did say in an earlier post that ARR is a quick learner and he will start doing well in folk and classical music soon, but again you and Trend have started doing what you guys do best : Bash Raja for Rahman's sake.
  
  I am sure that one day ARR might reach Raja in his musical accomplishments, or maybe even overtake him. What he has done so far is good .. but nowhere near the prolific rate at which Raja turned out one outstanding number after another in his prime.
  
  
• From: Trend (@ 216.68.113.227) on: Mon Oct 30 16:43:43 EST 2000
  
  Karthik,
  
  "ARR is a quick learner and he will start doing well in folk and classical music soon"
  
  How do you say ARR hasn't already done well in folk and classical music?
  I know what you are going to do.You will take two songs of IR each from folk and classical and you will say ARR can't come nearer to those songs.And then I will start saying ARR's songs are in fact better than those.
  
  Don't induce that infinite loop again. Try something different.
  
  This thread is supposed to discuss about ARR's disabilities/abilities.If you observe there have been lot of references to IR which started as pro-IR statements by Ir fans.
  
  Trend
  
  Trend
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 129.188.33.221) on: Mon Oct 30 17:14:53 EST 2000
  
  Trend, what is your point?
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Oct 30 17:43:45 EST 2000
  
  Karthic whether you agree with it or not, "Ammadi Ponnukku Thanga Manasu" is far far superior to the stuff that IR - BR combo churned out in their prime. Summa arguementkkaga pesadheenga
  
  btw: fyi:till date (trend ) any other arr fan (including me) have not start a negative thread to bash ir.
  
  
  
• From: satishW (@ 24.10.53.182) on: Mon Oct 30 17:51:37 EST 2000
  
  >> PG: can anybody define to me what is music ? please...
  
  PG, Ilaiyaraasaa paattu kaettu itukkeeyalaa? athukku paeru thaan moosic. mathathellaam verum satham.
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 136.182.2.221) on: Mon Oct 30 18:09:49 EST 2000
  
  Srikanth, I knew that this would be your response :( What about the second part of my question - define folk music for ignoramuses like us ..
  
  fyi:till date (trend ) any other arr fan (including me) have not start a negative thread to bash ir
  
  Why start a new thread, when you are doing it in every other thread. There used to be a phase (say 6 - 12 months ago) when you kept on bashing IR in every single thread, with the excuse that "I am doing it because of IR fans". We still remember things, even if you have forgotten them.
  
  Oh, and regarding "Any other ARR fan have not start a negative thread" ... take a look at IR or ARR among the current threads. And hundreds of others in the archives.
  
  Again, I am not bashing ARR here. I agree he has a lot of potential. But is he a legend in the league of IR or MSV - not yet. Someday maybe, but not now.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Oct 30 18:11:18 EST 2000
  
  karthick :)))
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 136.182.2.221) on: Mon Oct 30 18:15:42 EST 2000
  
  Fan, nicea smiley ellam pottutu thapichidlam nnu pakkarenngala? Viduratha ellai naan.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Oct 30 18:19:10 EST 2000
  
  karthick ...
  you told me!...."Summa arguementkkaga pesadheenga" ....so better to keep shut....thats why i smiled and walked away.
  
  
  
  
• From: Karthik (@ 136.182.2.221) on: Mon Oct 30 18:26:49 EST 2000
  
  Okay, sorry if I hurt you here. But , honest a kekkaren, do you think that with whatever ARR has done today, he deserves a place among MSV and IR?
  
  I have a lot of respect for your opinion (nejamave!) and if you give me an answer, I will leave it at that.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Oct 30 18:28:59 EST 2000
  
  "anthakalathu ba is better than todays mba" ,this is been your argument.
  
  I dont know what to tell to you!, because you don't see the reality at all,
  
  
  IR or MSV - not yet. Someday maybe, but not now"
  
  arr is grown all over india.
  as of today, he has cut a song with mj
  now he is working with andrewW..
  dont you think this is a great growth to an indian musician.
  To achive so much just luck, hype, marketing etc alone cannot help, if so there would 10,000 arrs today.
  He has got great stuff, he does good music. He has proved it from time to time to many people in india and around the world.
  
  so what is it you are looking from ARR ?
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Oct 30 18:31:23 EST 2000
  
  karthik, thats ok dont feel sorry, :)
  we are just talking "music" thats all, dont take it personally.
  
  
  
• From: Bhagavathar (@ 209.43.48.158) on: Mon Oct 30 19:00:35 EST 2000
  
  Just because ARR giving hit music all the time mean he is a good MD. Can he give hit songs for 10 movies at the same time that too inclusive of all types folk, Carnatic and Western music. Nope he cannot do that but IR did. Because he gave Sindu Bairavi, Mudal Mariyadhai and Nayagan. All the songs were hit and music were different style. But for ARR its the same listen to Mudhalvan and Taj Mahal released at the same type and music beat were the same. Even MSV during his peak has given good folk music for Patikada Patanama "Enadi Rakkama" but the guy who follows and likes MSV doesn't know ABCD of that type of music.
  
  He should hang around with MJ and Andrew Lloyd Webber because he knows (copies) that type of
  music.
  
  Give ARR hundred years he cannot master IR or MSV
  even Deva in folk music, Carnatic and BGM. He had 8 years still no sign of improvement in those areas.
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Mon Oct 30 19:21:24 EST 2000
  
  i remember reading in this df or some other place a good analysis of the structure of the folk music (especially how the melody make abrupt jumps blab blah blah). does anyone remember? was it anand mahadevan?
  
  fan, i had been to dinner with jay enoch. i should be a great vision scientist :-))))))
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Mon Oct 30 19:34:20 EST 2000
  
  First person to have 3 shows playing in
  New York and three in London...
  http://www.westegg.com/unmaintained/alw/
  
  frankly any musician will love to hang-out with him!....
  
  http://www.johnwilliamscomposer.com/
  This man has done only 80 movies, he does about 3 or 4 movies per year,he is one of the best composer around.
  
  
  arul: welcome back!....good to know you are eating dinner...
  btw: arr went to make the "dinner" for them.
  I am sure jay eonch will not let you cook for him
  
  (or how about calling this nexus of yours with jay enoch something close to our "great" symphony....bla bla bla...)
  
  
  
• From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Mon Oct 30 19:48:25 EST 2000
  
  I have a question - muically, who is MJ? Who is Frank Sinatra? Who are all these world famous musicians? The numerous rock groups, aqua.. etc etc.... Purely musically are they legends by any stretch of imagination?
  
  Its not an easy thing to become a famous person, I agree. To churn out music that the entire world likes, and can identify with - is not an easy thing. Just that musically, its not the most important thing.
  
  In my opinion, ARR is a good musician, but marketing has contributed a lot to his "poularity too. And I feel that the quality of his works improved since he started out, but has then started declining.
  
  In any case, I cant accept that popularity / working with world famous people / etc is enough to rate him as a legend.
  
  
  
• From: kk (@ 198.4.92.5) on: Mon Oct 30 19:49:12 EST 2000
  
  Some people do different stuff and regarded great. Some think just being desparately different makes them great. ARR is that category. Even maniratnam, kamal etc comes in to this. They think what was there, time tested by thier predecessors are all foolish. Though, they dont tell it out, you can sense from thier words like 'Iam taking tamil movies/music to world standards!'. As if carnatic and folk that existed are all substandard.
  
  In my opinion IR took folk and other form of native music and showed what great thinks can be done with it. But 'Iam damn different' ego savvy musicians make thier own stuff. Because they are different!.
  They are webber, MJ stuff, dont expect music of sick soil shopping tamil villagers in thier music. They will synthesize Rs.100 gattam with $5000 digital equipment, listen to that.
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Mon Oct 30 19:52:42 EST 2000
  
  Fan..you have not answered Karthik's question (??)Why evade his question ? Dont worry if you need protection from IR fans I will pay for your personal bodyguard :-)
  
  (Anyways, I could not touch the equalizer with your Warrior composition, it just clips. The bass is very high so it can only can be compressed but I think its already been compressed too much. So why dont you listen to http://members.tripod.com/kbkaran/the_warrior_k3.mp3 and let me know).
  
  
• From: aruLaracan (@ 134.124.160.10) on: Mon Oct 30 19:55:00 EST 2000
  
  fan,
  
  the lack any smiley in your reply to my post is tempting me to reply - a harsh and my usual sarcastic one at that - but i am going to resist that.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 63.89.188.162) on: Mon Oct 30 20:49:56 EST 2000
  
  Is Rahman Village, Carnatic and background music challenged?
  
  No.
  
  But that won’t suffice for a discussion forum right? So let’s get into it. Intriguing that you should pick Village (shall we say folk to be clear? It’s possible to make village music in the city), Carnatic and background music as the criteria to judge ARR. By this distinction are we to assume that you agree that ARR is exemplary in pop, reggae, Western classical, Jazz, Western musical and New Age genres?
  
  Folk music:
  I will list the songs that I think belong in the folk genre.
  -pachchaikkili paadum paattu
  -poaraalae ponnu thaayee, especially the sad one sounds convincingly like a villager’s lament
  -kaththaazham kaattu vazhi, if this is not folk music what does it sound like to you? Does this song bring to mind an urban landscape? Come on, don’t get comical.
  -then kizhakku cheemayila, same as above
  -nee kattum saelai madippila, this is a rousing folk dance number if I ever heard one.
  -usilambatti pen kutti--the flute and percussions are flawless in this number they punctuate the folk dialectic in their arrangement.
  
  The above tracks are enough to refute your claim that ARR is folk-music challenged. So, unless you go by the number of songs done in a genre, there’s no justifiable way to say that ARR is inept in this genre, unless as an opinion.
  
  Carnatic:
  -en veettu thaottathil
  -narumugaiyae
  -azhagaana raatchasiyae
  -malargalae malargalae
  -sowkkiyamaa
  -maargazhi thingal allavaa
  -kannamoochi yaenadaa
  -kannoadu kaanbathellaam
  
  The above songs spring immediately to mind. All of the above are based on classic ragas, this I learned from the pundits in this forum. And I know there are many more. So, unless you want to pick on the rendering of it (since you must be a bagavathar who obviously knows much more about Carnatic music than Yesudas, Unni Krishnan, and Nithyasree), this claim is refuted too.
  
  And now let’s come to the Background Music (what will IR fans do without this loaded category?)
  Yes, ARR is not exemplary in this. Vedi pattaasai, odai thaengaayai sandhoaashamaa? Frankly, background music is a separate element from songs. Background music doesn’t hurt my enjoyment of audio tracks one bit. That’s a movie issue not a songmaking issue. While I have many soundtracks and score albums from Western movies, that’s not something I would compare with regular song genres. One doesn’t compare pop musicians to background scorers like John Williams. The reason this becomes a criteria to judge ARR is because IR is good at it. Hey, whatever makes you guys happy. It’s like a candidate always competing in the same constituency because he knows he can beat anybody there.
  
  Sevudanukkuk kooda kaelvi gyanam kudukkalaam, aana kaadhai poththikkittu kaekkalainnu solravangalaip paaththu sirikkaththaan mudiyum.
  
  

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