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Raja's Dabba Songs!

Topic started by Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on Mon Sep 14 13:55:31 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi,
I want to list out "Dabba Songs" of Raja.
This will prove even Raja has composed "Dabba songs". I have huge list, which I will adding soon.

Velai Eadum Illamal Benchil Irukum
Srikanth

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ tnt01-abe-196.fast.net) on: Tue Sep 22 00:50:34 EDT 1998
  
  ennapa sriram lakshmana,
  "Define a good song."
  Guess this an antithesis to this thread.
  I would be curious if you could generally lay out the parameter/boundaries of a good number, by which standard we can debate about a dabba song.
  Srikanth's definition at the start of this thread was vague and was'nt specific.
  Before one describes a song as a dabba or otherwise,make sure U guys justify it reasonably.General categorization makes no sense ,sighting lewd lyrics etc.
  If you find it downright pathetic make a case for yourself and it could be make this thread interesting or would say debatable.
  
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ sf-dnpqc-032.compuserve.net) on: Tue Sep 22 03:07:17 EDT 1998
  
  Mahadeva,
  My personal definition...I feel that music is a means of conveying feelings and a good song according to me should do just that. Without this basic essence, music ceases to exist. The feelings could be conveyed by subtle melody flow (which was totally absent in the examples that I quoted and those I have not yet quoted) or by selective usage of instruments to suit the mood appropriately. Sometimes freshness also does matter. Injudicious usage of instruments for the sake of introducing complexity is mere self-indulgence but maybe fit for analysis. But in this case there is more of science in picture than art and music has died an early death. That is what I see most of the Carnatic music vidwans doing, viewing music through a plethora of accumulated knowledge and anything that does not agree with the knowledge they have accumulated is fit for condemnation. I guess as far as listening to music goes, the lesser knowledge you have greater will be your listening power and power of assimilation ( a little bit of J.Krishnamoorthy for you), more so for film music which thankfully has no rules.
  Enough of digression ....I think I gave enough substantiation for my earlier posting and all those songs fall under the category of 'kadamaikku composing'. They all might have some raaga associated with them like abcdxyz-varali or abxsdsd-gowlai but I will leave all that to our Music academy and Karthik fine arts public to figure out. Mahadeva, I suspect that you are asking such questions because you are unable to digest such charges levelled at IR. IR figures in my list of favourite MDs too, but when it comes to qualitative judgement names do not matter.
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Sep 22 05:06:20 EDT 1998
  
  lakshman,
  
  "I feel that music is a means of conveying feelings and a good song according to me should do just that. Without this basic essence, music ceases to exist."
  
  can u mention some new songs which are "means" of conveying some "feeling"
  
  What meaning does anna nagaru aandalu, pEttai rap or hai rabba convey???
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Tue Sep 22 10:49:01 EDT 1998
  
  srinath,
  'all the time' in nadodi thendral atleast is definitely not thoonguvazhinjifying.i
  
  
• From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Tue Sep 22 11:13:41 EDT 1998
  
  shankar : what question is that?? u need to be "educated" about the meaning conveyed by pettai rap and other songs.
  1. geography: the song effectively lists the pettais in tamil nadu. so if u are a foreigner looking lost and don't know what pettais are present in tamil nadu , this will help.
  2.catalogue: the song lists what are available in a provision store or ration kadai. arisi, paruppu, beedi etc.
  3. the ways of recreation: for some one who wants to learn about how tamil junta spend their time, this song is for him. all the "major" recreational activities are listed here, like gilli, goli, gaana paattu etc.
  so what else do you want?? pettai rap is the most meaningful song in TFM history!!!!
  p.s. romba serious-aa eduthukkaadheenga. i agree with u 100%.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Tue Sep 22 12:22:37 EDT 1998
  
  There is not hard and fast rule all the songs must convey a message. If you need message you can read Thirukural or any other literary work.
  We are talking about entertainment, something which makes the mass happy when they listen or see it. Imaging adding few good words on "peta rap" who will listen!
  "Santharpam & Suznilai" is very important in making a song.
  When I hear the western lyrics I laugh out loud, especially the country music - most of them sound the same to my ears, words are always rhymed.
  Something :
  Saw a women on the road - who looked very cold.
  But She was tool old be on the road1...
  
  We have similar songs from Raja just for sake of composing not bothered about
  Lyric.
  Masthana Masthana - what a good lyric! - Great meaning it conveys.
  Has good words like "kanapina, yesthana,thaja, kannale Arrow vitu, hero kite, modhudhu,pithana, gana paatu , chase thana, passthana, love exam!..,passsu
  We need the konar thamiz uraai to get the meaning.
  
  Another dabaa lyrics allowed by Raja: Muthu Muthu ponkodi - in maaya Bazzar.
  Srikanth
  
  
  
• From: CM (@ alpxy3.att.com) on: Tue Sep 22 12:32:11 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  Iam nt going to say anything about the lyrics of "Masthana Masthana", but are u suggesting that this is one of those dabba songs that u are trying to list. I still have the feeling that its probably a good calypso kinda music I've heard so far. Iam not techinically sound to say that Iam right in choosing this song as the best, but I go by what I like to listen and believe my ears than techinicality, a true layman. As far as I know there hasnt been a better calypso composition so far. By the way wasnt Rasayya by KR. I say again that this as far as I know.
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks15d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Tue Sep 22 12:40:22 EDT 1998
  
  Vijay:
  Inspite of these songs being mediocre by IR's standards, I would still prefer listening to them rather than a street dialogue like "Pettai Rap".
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Tue Sep 22 12:58:47 EDT 1998
  
  Hey Cm,
  
  Listen to Harry Belofonde!
  Raja flicked this tune also.
  
  Have you guys heard Ele Machi in aAn Azgan by IllayaRaja. Super Junk music.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Anand Mahadevan (@ freedum.proxy.lucent.com) on: Tue Sep 22 15:02:59 EDT 1998
  
  Lakshmana,
  what feelings does "Thottal poo malarum,thodamal Naan malrendhan" invoke or for that matter "Thalai kuniyum thamarai".Base lewdness, which is downright degrading.
  If one has to categorize a song based on the feelings,I guess most of TFM will come under a big cloud.Save for a few kannadasan songs,most of them are'nt even worth singing.The saving grace is the melody and the harmony.Harmony was a disaster in pre-IR days.Its a very fine line of distinction between a dabba and a good song and it boils down to personal taste.One caanot generalize this categorization.
  
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Tue Sep 22 15:58:22 EDT 1998
  
  Anand:
  Anand you have understood the essence - it is all individuals taste, You might like Raja. I might like MSV, there are few I know who likes Deva, wheather it is peta rap or kanalane or Illaiyanila everything boils down to
  Personal taste, for me peta rap is done pretty well .
  
  Srinath: As mentioned earlier - you are not able to digest the poor songs by Ilayaraja
  
  Adding to dabba songs : in Sri Ragavendarar - All the songs are very nicely done - But there is a
  very poor song from Raja sung by S.Janaki. - song:Unakum Enakum
  
  
• From: Srinath (@ socks13d.raleigh.ibm.com) on: Tue Sep 22 16:20:27 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  I am not sure I understand your comment.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Tue Sep 22 18:19:52 EDT 1998
  
  i feel that dabba songs of raja or ARR should not include songs having bad lyrics. the MD nowadays no longer bothers about the lyrics and
  writing lyrics is not his job. his job is composing.
  so songs with bad tunes, bad orchestration, bad choice of voices etc. should only be considered.
  in that aspect a few of raja's songs from prominent films which i (a raja fan ) think are dabba :
  
  1. kuttu kuttunu - magalir mattum - bad singing, bad tune
  
  2. kalaignan kattukaaval - kalaignan - no tune
  
  3. oh baby - KM- cannot remember the tune at all. did the song had any tune?
  
  4. viralil sruthi- nandavana theru - supposed to be a classical song, but pi$$ed me off!, dull and boring.was it chitra singing?!!
  
  5. vaadi vethalapaaku- veera - successive words having the same swara pattern, vaadi sounds similiar to vethala and vethala sounds similiar to paaku and paaku sounds similiar to vaangi. this bugs me. there are quite a few songs like this. no ups and downs in scale.
  
  the reason i cannot list many bad songs is because i cannot remember them!
  
  that's why i have listed songs from prominent films. iam quite sure there would be many more songs from the eighties when IR composed for a lot of junk films.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Tue Sep 22 19:33:19 EDT 1998
  
  1. I agree that lyrics should not have a place in judging a composer's quality.
  
  2. It is very difficult to be objective (in fact defining objectivity is itself too difficult) in classifying a song as dabba or not. For instance, I rate pettai rap is a filthy song, but it was a big hit. Similarly, there may be songs that I consider dabba but others don't. This has been amply seen in this thread.
  
  So I think Ravi must kill this thread.
  
  
• From: Sriram Lakshman (@ sf-dnpqb-114.compuserve.net) on: Tue Sep 22 22:49:09 EDT 1998
  
  Mahadeva ,Shankar and Srikanth
  I never ever mentioned lyrics in my posting. A good lyrical content with a song that brings out the expression is always good to listen to but Mahadevan's question was aimed more at the music portion and so was my answer. 'Thirukkural' comment is inappropriate. Do you not think that 'Thalayai kuniyum thamaraye' creates a festive atmo? The tune does certainly create an impact.I am sure you like the song too but I would like to know why. Srikanth, you are contradicting yourself when you say that music is for the Junta and to make them happy and at the same time preceed it with the statement 'music does not need to convey a message'. At the same time you talk about Soozhnilai which is totally in agreement with what I have said.
  Shankar,If pettai rap has made the public jump up and dance it has served its purpose. Probably I too might play the song during one of those 'wild' get togethers and reject it as trash in other situations.
  I also cleary stated that this is my opinion ie taste and obviously there is no general categorisation.
  
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Wed Sep 23 00:23:19 EDT 1998
  
  Guys,
  From the discussions that have been going on in this thread so far, I get the following impression :
  
  * There are many of us who tend to confuse dabba songs for dabbanguthu songs.
  
  * Some of us feel that songs with poor lyrical content qualify for the so-called "dabba" songs. In fact, songs listed in this category in this thread may perhaps be more apt in the "Great Songs, Stupid Lyrics" thread, or not there as well.
  
  * The choice of songs that we consider "dabba" is a matter of personal taste.
  
  However, I'd like to elaborate on the last said aspect. While debating on the "dabba" songs of a composer like IR, we must remember that almost all of us have been strongly influenced by his music, one way or the other (Check the "Songs that touched us" thread, if you don't believe this !), and hence have strong convictions about his music.
  This is likely to cause us to behave in the following way(s) upon hearing a mediocre song from him :
  
  1. We have very high expectations of his music, and hence reject anything remotely mediocre, that he has to offer. This is what Shankar has said in one of his postings above. IR is special to most of us, and hence anything thatfalls below the level of the "speciality" is rubbished as trash.
  
  2. The second type of reaction is that some of us are so overwhelmed by some of his music (of the past), that we have tended to get obsessed with the personality as well, and hence cannot accept the fact that there are pretty mediocre songs from him also. Thus, we find arguments like "IR is divine - so how can he deliver any dabba songs ?".
  
  So, these are also some factors introducing the "subjectivity" element to our discussions here.
  
  In fact, I'd say that if many of us were to hear some of the songs without being told who the MD is, I'm pretty sure that quite a few songs (of IR) will be condemned by many of us here. Many songs of IR (in the 93-94 era), according to me, were indistinguishable from those of "lesser acclaimed" MDs.
  
  
  
  

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