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Mano and ARR

Topic started by Srikanth (@ inet21.us.oracle.com) on Thu Aug 6 14:27:17 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

ARR seems not using Mano these days. Only in Thiruda Thiruda and Kaadhalan, Mano had good (I mean full length) songs. In Merupu Kalalu (Minsara Kanavu in Tamil), he sang Strawberry kanne song. I feel Mano sang those songs well. ARR should be using him more -- atleast I feel, Mano can sing those songs that ARR is singing better than ARR. I am seeing a trend that ARR is taking one song in each of his movies...

Awaiting comments...

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Sat Aug 8 07:07:51 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya: I gave up on this thread and changed the topic itself. :-).
  
  
• From: Observer (@ spider-wd042.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Aug 8 10:28:46 EDT 1998
  
  Among MD's I think each one of them knows exactly what their pitch (viz scale) is , and I donot think anybody ever tried opposites. Most of the songs that both IR and MSV sung suited their scale requirements and they did not try to deliver any abaswarams. Being renowned MD's they know where to draw the line. After all, they make other professional singers . So there is no debate here as to who is better than who. Both are equally good singing.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.248) on: Sat Aug 8 12:57:27 EDT 1998
  
  udhaya,
  not singing in one's own voice does not mean humility. then all MD's who don't sing become humble and ARR,IR etc. become arrogant which is absurd.IR has shown his capability of singing in more than a handful of songs (which u have mentioned for MSV). anyway barring a couple of songs u have mentioned others are neither great IMO, nor were hits.
  whereas i can list 20 hits of raja atleast, right off my head now. 'metti oli kaatrodu' by IR cannot be matched by any other MD.'janani janani' by IR cannot be matched.no one remembers MSV as a singer.
  
  the very fact that we argue whether IR has a good voice or not ( there is a separate thread)shows that we rememeber him as a singer and that's enough.
  
  
• From: Mano (@ wheel112.watstar.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sat Aug 8 16:51:42 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya:
  Yo're absolutely right. IR brings mood and flavour only to few songs. He is getting better in pronouncing the words, but no one can beat spb. IMO, IR's old songs are much much better than the new songs. It seems that everyone compares 'Metti Oli..' song. It's damn good song and it doesn't mean that his other songs are good too. I am tired of IR voice because most of the time he spoils a good song.
  
  BTW: 'Kathal Sangamam' is not that great.
  
  Cheers
  Mano
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.248) on: Sat Aug 8 23:26:14 EDT 1998
  
  mano,
  i agree that just because metti oli is good , the other songs need not be good. but IR has given a no. of melodies and hits over the past 18 years
  and he is also old, albeit not as old as MSV.his voice in 'thendral vanthu theendum' was fine and suited nasar very well. MSV's voice does not suit any actor.
  
  many people here say that SPB would have sung this song or that song better, etc. if u ask me it is left to the individual's opinion and taste.
  SPB has not sung those songs, that's all, period.
  
  IMO,IR brought a good amount of emotion in the foll songs (just a few examples):
  
  thenpaandi seemayile - nayagan- hear the 'pisiru'
  in his voice to convey the sorrow
  
  oorrorama aathupakkam- idhaya kovil - lively number
  
  enna paatu paada- dappankuthu in mayamalava gowlai! controversial song! IR switches effortlessly between high and low pitches in that song.
  
  thendral vanthu- u know better!
  
  enna enna kanavu - valli - pathos!
  
  punnagayil minsaaram- bharathan-fantastic breezy number! makes u dance spontaneously!
  
  in most of the above songs IR's voice is not supported by instruments or chorus singers.
  
  
  in spite of all the above examples i still agree that IR is not a great all round singer, nowhere near SPB.but pl. do not compare him with MSV.
  
  i heard 'metti oli' when i was about 8 or 9 years old. after that i heard it only a few days back in gireesan's site.i had to majorly change my opinion about IR's voice.i also feel that his voice was perhaps better in the 80's.
  
  i personally prefer him singing these soft romantic type numbers than those loud rustic songs like 'enna paatu paada','chandiraraum suriyarum' etc.
  
  
  
• From: Mano (@ tesla.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sun Aug 9 09:28:28 EDT 1998
  
  vijay:
  I agree. How many films did IR compose music in his career? How many songs did he sing before 90's? I would say that IR has chosen special songs to fit his voice. Eg. Metti Oli.., Raja Rajathi Rajan..,Poove Nee Naan Aagavum... He also sang most of the songs for some(Not this) films, such as ponnu Ooruku puthusu. Now a days, opposite is true. He sang most of the songs in a movie. I can give you several examples, but most important one is Paatu Paadava. IMO, IR spoiled Nil Nil, in Poomani, Thol Male., etc. Why there is so much difference?
  BTW: I like most of IR's old songs rather than the new ones.
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-41.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sun Aug 9 09:49:11 EDT 1998
  
  Hi,
  
  Raja became to misuse his power as a composer (or greatest composer status.), he made sure atleast couple of songs per movie.
  We all know how he sang in Geetanjali (tamil), took all the songs in his pocket.
  "Nil nil nil" for Raghu!, does this suit the actor.
  Rajas voice did not suite any actor, probably except janagaraj in nayagan. (M.Vasu's voice is apt for him too).
  By the way have any one heard meti ole song in telugu, SPB has done it, some light years differnce between the quality of the song.
  
  Rajas spoils the track by using his higly congested nasal voice, he voice is not fit to sing, no one dares to tell him the truth.
  I prefer Raja to stick on to his composing rather than using his voice as his own weapon of destruction.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
  
  
• From: Mano (@ marconi.uwaterloo.ca) on: Sun Aug 9 15:51:54 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth:
  I totally disagree with you. I have seen 'Metti' many times and I have it on VHS too. The rendering and the situation is perfect.
  He selects song for his style and he was successful in rendering it too. For your Info, 'Geetangali' reached platinum status.
  
  IMO, no one's voice fits any of the actors, apart from their singing capabilities. Can you give examples? I believe, that it was in past, where TMS voice fits MGR and SIvaji, etc. Now a days, it is the matter of how well you can render it?
  
  Cheers
  Mano
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-160.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sun Aug 9 19:29:06 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Mano:
  "Now a days it matters how well you can render it."
  Raja cannot render well,
  Shruthi illamna padarthu is a crimal injustice to music - This applies to Raja or ARR or MSV or any tom..d..h Raja often looses shruthi, I can prove many songs where he misses shruthi.
  I cannot accpet this injustice to music by a person who his rated as top class musician inthe world.
  
  Netrikan therandalum kutram kutrame.
  
  Geethanjali - I am talking about the tamil movie which raja has rendered all the songs. That is absolute misuse of his status, I was not talking about the film's success.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: srini (@ 168-151-29.ipt.aol.com) on: Sun Aug 9 20:38:57 EDT 1998
  
  
  I entirely agree with Srikanth.Ilayaraja has spoilt a lot of his good compositions by his
  rendering without sruthi..which does neither him nor his carnatic music knowledge any credit.
  
  IR's voice is rustic and has its own charm but is
  suitable only for few songs like 'thenpandi cheemaiyile' and 'kadhal kasakkuthiya'.All the other songs he has rendered has one flat note or the other.MSV's voice is not a very attractive one
  and the good thing is he (MSV) knew it the best.He did not try classical or romantic songs like IR did(Only exception being 'sollathan ninaikkiren' .which he should have given to spb).MSV sang some beautiful numbers like
  ALLAH ALLAH
  unakkenna kuraichal nee oru raja,
  kudumbam oru kadambam
  Nobody can really say MSV sang even one song with flat notes like IR has done innumerable number of times.
  
  I donot know what to call it when somebody has decent singers like Deepan chkravarthi as mere chorus singers while letting himself sing the
  main piece.."JANANI JANANI" would have been a more
  complete song had somebody like YESUDAS sang it.Thank god IR had 'AMMA endrazhaikkadha' sung by KJY.Otherwise,we would have lost a great 'kalyani' number and its interesting sequences in some 'JEEVAN"less voice. JANANI was a 'hit' because of the simplicity of the tune,rhythm and 'musical'(sadaivar kuzhalum,pidai vahanamum) lyrics by VAALI.
  
  more later
  
  
  
• From: shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Aug 10 00:45:48 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth,
  IR's voice very much suits Nasser .listen to the songs of Avatharam.esp 'aridaratha poosikkolla aasa...'>Nasser delivers some dialogues in between the stanzas.U can't differentiate IR's voice and his.
  IR's voice suits Murali and Ramarajan(!!!)also
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Aug 10 01:14:32 EDT 1998
  
  How does MSV's name figure in the title ? Has Mano sung any song for him ? Or has the topic now been broadened to discuss about IR's and MSV's voices also (along with Mano's) ?
  
  Come on, you "Mano Sir" reverers out there - how could you possibly tolerate Mano Sir being compared to MDs in singing, instead of SPB uncle, KJY saar, etc ? ;)
  
  
• From: Viswa (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Mon Aug 10 01:18:44 EDT 1998
  
  One of the most inappropriate situations where IR decided to lend his voice was for the song "NAn uLLukkuLLa chakravarthi" in PaNNakkAran. He sang this song for Rajinikanth, and I felt the combination was simply out-of-place ! IR singing for RajKiran, dowser, Murali, Chandrasekar, etc is fine, but for Super Star...
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.248) on: Mon Aug 10 01:31:17 EDT 1998
  
  the original topic was a comparison between IR and MSV and it has digressed into whether IR spoils songs or not. i have agreed long back that IR is not a great singer.whether SPB would have sung any songs of IR better or not is purely speculative and subjective.
  
  the fact is IR's voice suits more actors than MSV's.
  
  its also a fact that he has sung for actors for whom his voice does not suit like rajni for example.
  
  the 'nasal congested voice' of IR indeed suits the song metti oli better, and IMO it would have been definitely better than SPB rendering it.
  
  to summarize , IR has sung for many actors like naaser, rajkiran for whom his voice suits and also for rajni etc. for whom his voice does not suit.
  
  Finally, i still do not think MSV has a great voice nor is he a great singer. also, he cannot be compared with IR on a fair basis.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.248) on: Mon Aug 10 01:39:51 EDT 1998
  
  srini,
  your argument on janani is totally baseless.
  in what way u say IR's rendition of the song is incomplete and KJY would have sung the better?
  IR in spite of his background pronounces the sanskrit words perfectly. whereas KJY had sodhappified songs with his pronunciation in the past. like 'therukoyile odi vaa' instead of 'thirukoyile odi vaa' in a song from andhaman kaadhali.
  
  he might be a better singer than IR but
  that does not deny the fact that IR did a good job in janani janani. what special reason did MSV or ARR had for rendering their songs?
  i can always say that all songs of MSV would have been rendered beter by TMS and all songs of ARR would have ben rendered better by hariharan or somenone else.
  as u can see it is a matter left to each one's taste.
  
  though IR re-sang songs like 'idhayam oru kovil'
  and did an unimpressive job, due credit must be given to him for some of the good songs he has sung.
  
  

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