Topic started by M.Anand (@ ihproxy1.proxy.lucent.com) on Tue Jan 18 01:03:04 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
hi all, I am Anand from bangalore and a new visitor to the tfm page. I am a great fan of both ARR and IR. I browsed through all the earlier threads on ARR and IR. It seems to me that there are quite a few anti ARRs out here.
Let me tell you something about IRs music. IRs music became popular and sounded different because he tried to bring in a westernization of Carnatic ragas in his songs. Even a dappanguthu was in Lathaangi or sivaranjani. That actually made the difference. Otherwise he is no great MD. One might argue that such a westernization or incorporation of a carnatic raga in a dappanguthu or jazz is something that demands great applause. But IR doesn't deserve that because, if u say u are tuning a song in a particular raagam, you have to bring out the nuances, the laya and bhaava of the raagam in to the song. Just traversing the swaras in the raagam here and there does not mean that u have tuned a song in that raagam. Ilayaraaja has done just that, a mere traversal through the swaras. In many places, there were apaswaras also. ARR has tuned very few songs based on Carnatic ragas but they were classics. For example Mettu podu in Anjali is a beautiful song in Ananda Bhairavi. He has brought out every nuance of the raagam in that song. Minsaara Kanna in padaiyappa is an excellent piece in vasantha. En mel vizhunda mazhai tuliye is again a beautiful piece in kaapi. A real mix of the east and west. That is what u call fusion. Ilayaraaja boasts of having composed songs in rare raagas like chala nattai, kanakangi etc. For example pani vizhum malar vanam in chala nattai is again a pure note traversal. There was no attempt to bring out the nuances in the raaga. So IR knew how to make songs sound good but ARR gives a fine polish to each and every one of his songs. IR composed music for 700 odd films. Hey Ram is his 785th film. Considering 7 songs per movie, he has tuned almost 5500 songs. Huge number indeed but hardly 5% of those songs are listenable others are 100% pure junk. But 99.9% of ARRs songs are listenable and they are also good numbers. What do you say about this?
Regards,
Anand
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Neel (@ 208.224.93.8)
on: Thu Mar 9 19:33:57 EST 2000
Desi, please mind your words. Your joke is not funny. FYI, I live in North America too. I have lived here for 10 years and I think I know a little to talk about it. Also, if you read my posting one more time closely you will find that I did not say that ARR's music was ALL noise.
- From: ECHO (@ fw1.directlink.net)
on: Thu Mar 9 20:24:09 EST 2000
ARR has stuff , that includes the borrowed stuff? :)
- From: vijanth (@ mayo.ee.qub.ac.uk)
on: Fri Mar 10 06:55:37 EST 2000
kiru ,
I sorry for the notation. Yes indeed he
is Llyody Webber not Lord.
The one things obvious from AR Rahman is that
he is marketting strategist.
So he can be even convious to top guy about
the originality of the music.
IR already wins millions of South Indian
(Tamil, Telugu Malayalam and Kanada ) ..he
still staruggling to win the Hindustani listener.
I think he should try to take or at least some indian producers should go and take a risk with
high budget film with him now.
He is a vinatge.. Listened to Kakhai Chiregenile
....listened to all the song...another Chinna
Tambi....but what happen to chennai..all their
ears only now listened to ARR drums and music
mixture.
Yella ippo mariyachu amma. Yella ippu dum dum
dum.. tha... no more talam....
Tamil makkal maritange. Engge UK le Tamilan
namma IR sar musicke kekeru.. Madras enna achi.
....ella rompa advance sa aitake.
Bless you
- From: kk (@ ppp-89-125.bng.vsnl.net.in)
on: Fri Mar 10 07:38:12 EST 2000
please stop pullambals..:(
- From: vv (@ mayo.ee.qub.ac.uk)
on: Fri Mar 10 10:14:08 EST 2000
kk
No pullambals..it is a fact after a reason
visit to india..
I was asking new album of IR and my friend from Madras told me why you are going for ..all the lottu lottu talam why not try the fusion of ARR.
Why not pullambals ....
The things here in Western we are so used to
dish ans dish...and all kind of syntesized and
we want true grammiar rythm but the whole senario
change in the heart of Tamil Nadu
Amma No pollumbals but super fact..
Marengga Da Sammy.
- From: ambleen (@ sbproxy1.mystarhub.com.sg)
on: Fri Mar 10 11:02:52 EST 2000
Yes no pullambals. They are super duper facts.Listen to this.
Over here in Singapore(too Pop cultured & upbeat) ppl are talking abt Sethu's & Hey Ram's excellent music(both songs & BGM).
Even my hindi speaking friend(not forgetting that she's a club crawler)loved the film & music of Hey Ram(hindi version)so much.
Two different friends of mine were telling me how good Sethu's BGM is not forgetting the fact that they don't talk abt such things(BGM!).
Super Duper facts eh :-)
- From: kiru (@ surf0004.sybase.com)
on: Fri Mar 10 14:41:42 EST 2000
It might be true that people prefer ARR now. I have no problems with that. I just want IR to start producing quality recordings. People have good music systems and have become very discriminating. Why I am insisting on this is, because, it is not a big deal to do these.
I was listening to Loreena Mckennit yesterday and was impressed by the recordings. So many of IRs melodies need this kind of recording. I would be in seventh heaven, if I hear something like that. (I am almost in the sixth even without that :))
- From: Bramathalam (@ 208.0.121.20)
on: Fri Mar 10 16:03:08 EST 2000
Guitar bass and song "Pachai Niramae" number from Alai Payuthey is inspired (copied) from from Simon Garfunkel OLD FRIENDS collection.
- From: arun (@ hide13.nhs.uk)
on: Sat Mar 11 15:48:38 EST 2000
Hi,
I enjoyed one of the recent threads where someone wrote IR=BEETHOVAN
ARR=MICHAEL JACKSON(SOMETIMES A COPY FROM MSV)
But I think ARR also frequently reminds me of T.R.Mahalingam & Pithukuli Murugadas.
arun
- From: ambleen (@ sbproxy1.mystarhub.com.sg)
on: Sun Mar 19 01:07:31 EST 2000
Hi All,
(This was a response to an observation made by someone who thought that the movie American Beauty had very Rahmanish and Ilayarajaish touch. I thought it might be interesting & therefore i posted it here).
The music for American Beauty is good. Its by Thomas Newman(son of the great Alfred Newman). He's a well established and in-demand composer in Hollywood for years. He has other remarkable works which are truly beautiful.
T Newman only came to the cinefield abt 15 yrs after Ilayaraaja entered. Thru' my listening experience,his music has never sounded like that of Ilayaraaja's at all. And thru my experience of listening to the genius Hollywood composer(Jerry Goldsmith) or any other older composers' music, Ilayaraaja's music has never ever sounded like any of them.
Ilayaraaja is a class of his own & he has a compositional flavor of his own. He has a trademark just like Goldsmith has his own trademark. Not many composers have this trademark. Mostly because very often they end up sounding like their predecessors' music(sometimes in musical notes but very often in the compositional style).
The great John Williams' famous Star Wars & Superman music itself is heavily inspired(pun intended) by Erich Korngold's Kings Row(old film) & Holst's classical The Planets. Even J Williams admitted that(partially due to the directors's request).
In fact,if u happen to watch SW:The Phantom Menace,u would so shockingly find Ilayaraaja's choral music(which is his trademark & been using in tamil films for years) at the end of the movie during the victory celebrations!
It is just too amazing about Ilayaraaja. Most ppl(in Hollywood) would say that Jerry Goldsmith is the most prolific & the most versatile & the best composer around. I already discovered that in Ilayaraaja long time ago(listening to his BGM's in the 70's indian movies etc).
Some geniuses are made but rarely a genius is born. And when they are born.....their names would be Ilayaraaja and Jerry Goldsmith.
- From: ambleen (@ sbproxy1.mystarhub.com.sg)
on: Sun Mar 19 01:08:34 EST 2000
Hi All,
(This was a response to an observation made by someone who thought that the movie American Beauty had very Rahmanish and Ilayarajaish touch. I thought it might be interesting & therefore i posted it here).
The music for American Beauty is good. Its by Thomas Newman(son of the great Alfred Newman). He's a well established and in-demand composer in Hollywood for years. He has other remarkable works which are truly beautiful.
T Newman only came to the cinefield abt 15 yrs after Ilayaraaja entered. Thru' my listening experience,his music has never sounded like that of Ilayaraaja's at all. And thru my experience of listening to the genius Hollywood composer(Jerry Goldsmith) or any other older composers' music, Ilayaraaja's music has never ever sounded like any of them.
Ilayaraaja is a class of his own & he has a compositional flavor of his own. He has a trademark just like Goldsmith has his own trademark. Not many composers have this trademark. Mostly because very often they end up sounding like their predecessors' music(sometimes in musical notes but very often in the compositional style).
The great John Williams' famous Star Wars & Superman music itself is heavily inspired(pun intended) by Erich Korngold's Kings Row(old film) & Holst's classical The Planets. Even J Williams admitted that(partially due to the directors's request).
In fact,if u happen to watch SW:The Phantom Menace,u would so shockingly find Ilayaraaja's choral music(which is his trademark & been using in tamil films for years) at the end of the movie during the victory celebrations!
It is just too amazing about Ilayaraaja. Most ppl(in Hollywood) would say that Jerry Goldsmith is the most prolific & the most versatile & the best composer around. I already discovered that in Ilayaraaja long time ago(listening to his BGM's in the 70's indian movies etc).
Some geniuses are made but rarely a genius is born. And when they are born.....their names would be Ilayaraaja and Jerry Goldsmith.
- From: arun (@ hide13.nhs.uk)
on: Sun Mar 19 05:20:17 EST 2000
Hi all,
This is in response to the thread by abmleen.
Ambleen strikes me as someone who would not propose his/her views without a sound background knowledge in the subject. The comments are so very different from the comments based on 'half-baked knowledge' of almost all ARR fans & some IR fans.
Personally, I gather loads of information from these threads & I strongly feel that immature minds that cannot enter into healthy discussions should 'stay out'. In fact I like to see some 'ego-maniacs'(you may guess who all) kept 'out of bounds' in these threads.
warm regards
arun
- From: ajit (@ na-216-214-255-220.corecomm.net)
on: Wed Mar 22 14:31:27 EST 2000
QArr or IR?
ABoth!
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