Home   Forum   Wiki   Notes   Register   FAQ   Sitemap   About Us   Contact Us  

ARR's song making style

Topic started by kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on Tue Oct 3 18:56:17 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I'd appreciate if knowledgeable people can contribute to this thread, hopefully explaining musical techniques in a form that everybody can understand

---

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: isai-rasigan (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Oct 4 17:36:35 EDT 2000
  
  Fan
  
  I am not from musiccurry, music rasam or music mOr (buttermilk). I am just an innocent admirer of theoretical/practical musical talents.
  
  I also agree with two of your points:
  
  1) We are not arguing whose is the best. We are just analysing the differences. Guys, please refrain from ranking MDs. It will convert this educative topic into another monotonous thread.
  
  2) We should try for some copyrights. Copying from newtfmpage has been happening since 1997. I remember kumudham commenting on Raja's BGM in 'kizhakkum mErkkum' and publishing the contradictions from newtfmpage. They are known to do such cheap tactics to fill their pages. Even recently, they published an article praising Raja and degrading Rahman and in the current issue, there is an article which says exactly the opposite!! For all we know, both of them may be written by the same person.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Oct 4 17:37:07 EDT 2000
  
  G: pakavillai sorry:), kalvalikudhu 52 achu poruma.. :)
  
  Rjay, ...mixing, sound placement etc ? ..yes, Like you i am able to predict the sound movements, mixing, harmony, even the reverb.
  I belive many of his songs were recorded aprox 2/3 years ago. In next few movies I hope see something new. Also there is nothing new in Protools till date :)
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Oct 4 17:39:14 EDT 2000
  
  Isai rasigan, ok ok I was just kidding :)
  I saw an article on downfall of ir...totally taken from here.there is not single line of credit give to this page.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed Oct 4 17:57:52 EDT 2000
  
  Fan,
  Iam here;)) Iam going thru all the previous posts as I missed out on the discussion. BTW,Your observation on how ARR works was interesting.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Wed Oct 4 18:16:40 EDT 2000
  
  HARI,
  I tend to agree with u on the abrupt scale changes in ARRs songs in Humma Humma etc. But these are witnessed a lot in pop songs. Maybe ARR who incorporates quite a bit of pop is influenced by this habit too. I dont think this has much to do wth ARR not composing a song in a single sitting. I think this he does it purposely.
  
  I also agree with snehidhane snehidahne. The first line of the charanam conveys a different mood from that of the Pallavi spoiling the continuity in mood, in contrast to a song like Vennilave vennilave where the mood conveyed is the same throughout.
  
  Maybe ARR is expeeimenting with this aspect of the song because majority of IR's songs have the same scale throughout, mood is continuous etc.
  If at all IR tries for any "surprise elements" in a song I would say it would be in the second interlude. If u have noticed the first interlude always is like a continuation of the Pallavi somewhat in terms of mood,raga, beat but in the second interlude IR tries something different.
  
  egs. 1. thendral thaan thingal thaan from keldai kanmani. the percussion is discontinued in the second interlude when the violins take over and it is brought back at the end of the interlude.
  
  2. kaadhal kavidhaigal padithidum neram - this time the beat is changed temporarily when it accompanies the flute in the interlude.
  
  3. thangach changili minnum paingali - once again watch out for the percussion in the second interlude.
  
  there are many such examples.
  
  I think ARR is trying to compose a little different here going for scale changes etc. but most often than not it spoils the mood of the song as it does in pop songs.
  
  
• From: isai-rasigan (@ 208.142.210.30) on: Wed Oct 4 18:35:35 EDT 2000
  
  Hi guys
  
  What is the difference between the tail pieces of 'paartha vizhi' (guNaa) and 'arabic kadalOram' (bambaai)? Though they appear similar, I find some difference. In the guNaa song only KJY seems to change his pitch, while in the latter, even the accompanying instruments seem to change their pitch.
  
  Am I right?
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Wed Oct 4 18:46:41 EDT 2000
  
  Guys,
  I think Humma Humma is a learning process, it was not done very well.
  
  if you take oo lla lla..mana madura...there was a very graceful scale change. It changes wonderfully. Same with endrum endrum punagai in AP. Scale change is really good.
  
  Talking of scale changes
  1. Rajavin paravi has great scale changes.
  only the bgm changes to different scale but the tune returns to the root.
  
  2. RajaKaiya vech has a great scale change.
  the pallavi has a scale and saranam has a scale.
  
  Scale change : Key is changed.,for any song shuruthi (or the key) is imporatant all songs has to have a shuruthi. This does not change anywhere in the song (singer should also maintain their shuruthi, if they miss we call it off note).
  All the chord progressions will be based on this key. If this key changed and shifts to some other key, it is called as scale change.
  We did not have these concepts for some time.
  
  Msv was first to do then Ir took it to a great extent now ARr is trying.
  Many western music songs have a good scale changes.
  Listen to michel jacksons "will you be there" has tons of scale changes.
  
  
• From: hari (@ 129.116.226.162) on: Thu Oct 5 00:29:11 EDT 2000
  
  I think that among Raaja's songs - the scale changes are indeed remarkable - I particularly like Kavidhai Kaelungal in Punnagai Mannan - from I charanam to Pallavi is a remarkable flow.
  
  isai-rasigan - KJY sings the tail piece of Paartha Vizhi in the same shruthi, just an octave higher.. whereas in Arabikkadaloram, its a different shruthi.
  
  As far as Srikanth's opinion goes.. I tend to disagree that ARR is learning or anything... its just that he is trying something for the sake of it - just a gimmick. This is not to say other MDs dont do it, but he really is overdoing it needlessly.
  
  And I cant see the difference between Arabikkadaloram, and Maanamadhura.. I remember that in the former, there is a small melody (guitarish..) which occurs at the changing point, and leads to the higher scale.. which didnt sound convincing. Why was Maanamadhura better? Can u pls explain?
  
  hari
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 63.225.174.211) on: Thu Oct 5 10:22:27 EDT 2000
  
  Hari,
  "I cant see the difference between Arabikkadaloram, and Maanamadhura"
  
  Please hear it again, Manamandhurai scale change is perfect to the core, the change is very smooth you dont realize the scale has changed.
  there are 15 instruments playing along they all blend perfectly. I dont see any flaw musically in that song. Imho:simply your are biased are not ready to take it. How can I make you agree when you are biased.?
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.149.4) on: Thu Oct 5 10:29:40 EDT 2000
  
  Okay ..let me summarize to the best of my understanding..I am going to skip the part about writing notations and all those stuff (heeding RJAY's advice) ..
  1) ARR (also) does scale changes in the course of a song. This is deliberate.
  2) Two instruments do not play the same notes so that each instrument in highlighted well (??). (I think fan needs to substantiate this better).
  3) Instruments/humming/AlAps come and go in the course of a song without any pattern (rajaG). Previously fan mentioned ARR style gives scope for performers more freedom. So this is a feature not a bug (in software parlance). It is a deliberate style. (you can call it loosely-coupled).
  4) Four part vocal harmony is another feature of certain songs of ARR.
  
  Let me add my own theories-
  5) The rhythm arrangement is the distinguishing feature of ARR's song. It could drums or a combination of drums/cymbals etc. The rhythm character is maintained throughtout the song even if some other drums/percussion instrument takes over. The rhythm might be interrupted for a short period or an improvisation might play during the interludes.
  6) The rhythm is the backbone of the song. So a solo instrument instroduces the melody and/or plays pieces of the melody during the course of the song (that is why you hear the instruments distinctly).
  7) Since the rhythm is maintained throughout any other instrument(s) has a free-play (leading to the loosely-coupled nature of the song).
  8) The rhythm arrangment is unique to a song. New drums are sought after. This gives a character to the song. (for eg. thavil like synth drums in enge enadhu kavidhai..so a nAdhaswaram complements in the middle of the song).
  
  Okay...these are just observations from a layman's point of view. Now the gurus takeover..
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 12:15:45 EDT 2000
  
  Kiru,
  Yes, you are right. The percussion sounds of ARR uses are often new and unique to him. He works on his sound, like if we add earlyreference Delay to a thavil sound. We get something new. All the 5 songs in rythm have different percussion kits.
  
  For example in the Rythm, Nadiye Nadiye song usually timing is played bell sound or Golusu kind of sound through out the song.
  But arr uses human voice (the cha cha sound) for timing. Using timing in a song is nothing big, but using a voice gives a new dimension to the song.
  
  Note in the first interlude he uses Brushkit fillins. The drum sound in the entire song has 2 beat sounds but rest 2 is delays. A bass note nicely backs this up on the beat. In second interlude he uses thavil. In rhythm if you see all the 5 songs have different percussion sounds. Often, for an ordinary listener a 4/4 beat cycle played with thavil sounds different from playing on a house drum kit.
  
  Same notes: Songs before Arr , the song is often followed by the chords played by guitar and also keyboard tone (usually the DX-electric piano sound). At times the guitar song and the DX-Electric piano sound clash at high notes, I have observed the sound losing it clarity at many intersection points, this clash happens even in other instruments also.
  
  Arr does not follow this idea; he chords are usually by a "PAD" kind of string sounds, it covers more spectrum, you get a filling ambience (eg:Ir has done in one song, vandhal vandal rajakumari, it had a great ambience and width).
  Arr never used the standard keyboard chords playing on the bar. He was totally different in showing or highlighting his chords. Observe katrene katre (Rhythm) - saranam part, he shows the chord progression by a set if strings pad sound played behind the song, this goes behind the song, you don’t hear it at first go, this adds weight to the song.
  
  "Music making is a gimmick" --- told by Ir only.
  
  I dont talk about who is best, things mentioned are being adopted by arr. We have been hearing him for 9-10 years now and I like the way he tries with new scorse and sounds.. in every song he records.
  Some might not like it, I cannot do anything about it. Calling it gimmick..etc IMHO I dont want to call it by such words, simply I know how hard it to record a song., When you compare with hindi junk we are far superior. Our music is about 100,000 light years ahead.
  
  
• From: fan (@ 216.190.255.35) on: Thu Oct 5 12:17:30 EDT 2000
  
  typo:
  I dont talk about who is best
  read it as
  I dont WANT TO talk about who is best
  
  

---

List all pages of this thread

Post comments