Technical Skills of the MDS

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Technical Skills of the MDS Technical Skills of the MDS

Topic started by Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-126.il.us.ibm.net) on Sat Aug 15 21:37:27 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hi,
In here I wish to compare the technical skills of the MDS - more on ARR and IR What are reasons for ARR being called a technician. Eg: Recording - Raja has used one of the best studio in the country Prasad, which has a clavier recording console (there are only 10-15 of them in the world.) M.Jacksons records uses that. So gadgets wise all the MDS use the same gigs but why ARR's output is crystal clear, Shall we discuss.
(PS: Please do make this into a arr vs IR war)

Srikanth.

Responses:

Old responses
From: venus (@ 39.los-angeles-05.ca.dial-access.att.net) on: Tue Aug 18 00:51:28 EDT 1998

Udhaya,
Somehow I dont agree with the Vannathu tharagaiyo
analysis. There is nothing wrong in trying new synth combo.Since keyboard is ARR's forte, it does not mean that IR should not try something in this.I dont accept this.

This is more or like "IR was (may be is) top 10 Guitarist, he produced great tunes no other MDs guitar pieces are good." I dont agree with this too. ARR is a creative keyboard artist cum composer, I dont have any doubt in this and his digital acumen is really appreciable. But nobody is more important than the field (music) or the instrument.This is what I say to myself whenever IR's music takes me out of world.

I perceive this topic as more of a constructive criticism. This criticism paves the way for the growth (I can hear people saying "IR - no need to learn or grow ").

I would like to give a small analogy
(I dont know , how far u can accept the analogy )
Though IBM is masters in mainframe computing and other commercial database side they did not stop
venturing out in GUI (though OS2 was not well received) and coming out with good GUI products
and services like e-commerce. Even they are trying come up with GUI on MVS. Initially u may feel like
"vannathu tharagaiyo" but I dont mind if I get a better product than MS. IBM could have stopped by saying that we have most reliable computing machine there is no need for any change.

To meet the competition ,I dont find anything wrong in venturing out new or learning new . After all it is a creative process. You want IR to stick to the traditional musicians but in some other thread for the same reason people claimed him that "his music is not international". Perception differs.

One more point I could not get was
"It may prove time-consuming and expensive to use that many musicians for every song these days"
During Johnny, Nizhalkal days also he was composing for 30 films and now also he does the same (I think his average is 30 films per year)

I never had any doubt in IR's originality or creativity. Still he is my first favourite composer, that does not mean that he should not improve.

I hope this discussion cruising in the right direction.
From: Udhaya (@ karthi4.globalcenter.net) on: Tue Aug 18 02:21:15 EDT 1998

Venus, you got me wrong. At the risk of sounding pompous, I have to give my quote here to ascertain what I said,I'm just saying that if he wishes to compete with ARR in the techno level, then he should get better versed with it so he can do Keyboards justice. I don't believe this is far from what you feel. The Poonthoattam song drum beat didn't sound good to me. If you like it good for you. I'm never one to stand in the way of experimenting.
Regarding the number of movies, IR was doing nearly 85 movies at a time during his peak. 30 movies a year weren't his norm. My best friend's family owned a studio and were distributors in the TF industry; my friend used to say that IR used to go from one recording to the next just handing out notes to musicians and assistants to run the show. While IR is an amazing talent to have pulled this off, the freshness and lushness of compositions took a turn for the worse, IMO of course.
Also, when he proclaimed that he has just been serving us appetizers and we think it's a feast, it was evident he had gotten tired of churning out TFM at such a pace. Also a certain contempt must have taken root in him for not being able to break free of the confines of TFM. I'll stop before I stray further.
From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Tue Aug 18 04:43:39 EDT 1998

srikanth,
I feel ur anology of MDs "learning" technical stuff and "usage" of computers is not the appropriate one.
IMO , if u r asking an MD to "learn" technical stuff it's like asking a guy who wants to telnet to some m/c, to learn TCP/IP :-))
I agree with ur point that MDs should make USE of technology for producing good quality music.

I think using the technology is different from learning it.
From: GK (@ sngrel1.hp.com) on: Tue Aug 18 04:52:50 EDT 1998

Hi listen guys , why only techy stuff. Konjam, carnatic panniya eduthukanga.
i.e. EN VITU THOTATHIL POOVALAAM KETU PAR - is nothing but RADHE MUKUNDA GOPALA HARE HARE ETC... absolute copy (understand I still like him for he is MD at 20's- do you know by the way he was in IR team) while IR does change a little bit with Improvisation ( which ARR is being doing off late).

Listen to IR's ILLaya nila (without any digital , techy etc..) vis a vis Chinna chinna asai (with digital recording). IR truly did not use any kind of digital stuff at all.

To highlight Karthik raja's comments on ARR, he says that any la, la, ( i meant humming) in a simple way needs to be converted into a good music- he says that is the challenge of the MD's.
From: CM (@ alpxy3.att.com) on: Tue Aug 18 11:49:22 EDT 1998

Hey Guys,
I was looking for some technical stuff about music to be compared here between MD's that are related to music, something like an MD's strong fundamentals regarding raagas, beats etc but I find that u guys are talking about how capable an MD is in adopting technology( by this I meant development in technology). Maybe thats what Srikanth wanted to discuss, but in that case the topic is a misnomer. I do not agree to the factory anology to music. Art, for that matter any form of it cannot be typed and sent into mass production, IMHO I feel that technology probably betters the presentation and its the tune, melody and the beats that are the first principles. So thats what is more necessary to music. This is ofcourse my humble opinion, look doent a vayal oram nattupura paadal catch as good as "Mukkaala mukaabala" the first time.
From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-115.il.us.ibm.net) on: Tue Aug 18 18:51:40 EDT 1998

Hey,
I did not want to discuss about musical technical ablities, without any doubt Raja tops ARR there.
I want to discuss about adopting to the new tech's. One more thing - Digital is not just a keyboard, there is much more - Keyboard is just a small part of the digital world.
Effect processors, sound compressers , samplers,
Sequeners, Digital Recording console, Digital mics etc.. etc..
Effect processors - offers various kinds of effects to a given sound input, a average Efp will have around 100-150 effect programs. ARr uses this much more than any one around. He records the track dry - meaning without any effects and add them at required places.
Software efp are also available.
EFP can be set based on beats also, for a example you need a echo at every fouth bar in a song - this can be programed.
Samplers : A wonder machine that allows to record sounds and play them as you like,. Basically I used it for pitch correction. (Raja can use this to correct atleast Bhava's voice).KR uses this for picth corroection.

...it is a big ocean.
I can explain more if any one is interested.
From: dhan (@ dajal.legato.com) on: Tue Aug 18 20:08:15 EDT 1998

go on srikanth!
From: Observer (@ spider-wg022.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Aug 18 20:29:23 EDT 1998

Udhaya, you got me wrong I am not saying learning new technology is a show-stopper to the development of MUSIC. On the contrary,i have said it could be of an academic interest at any given time.

Since i feel responsible for answering few queries evoked by my posting here, let me put forward my school of thought here before the thread can goes in to technical aspects of recording and musical equipments. There are three issues that i want to address here.
1) what is technology in the field of MUSIC
2) anology in comparing a MD to that of a floor-manager
3) what are the repurcussions of an MD becoming a specialist in acoustics

1) Though I am not well versed with fundemental concepts in MUSIC, my conscience tells me that a music directors primary responsibility is in creation of tune and his profound dedication to the art. This is undoubtedly what i would term as 'technical' in Music and there can not be any denying. Most of us would wellcome if IR comes with a new tune which would rock the whole of TN. He definitely uses his technical knowledge in MUSIC to produce those goods. If IR spends couple of minutes in this technique, he may probably come with a new tune for a new song. On the contrary, if he spends couple of years in an institute (or library) learning sound engineering you still donot know what would be the outcome. Because, it is not his field. There are trained technicians for that and you got to use them for that purpose. Moreover, sound engineering is a field by itself and the technology is bound to change in the future. I donot think that IR should bring quality in recording at the expense of his quality in creativity (of tunes) my mastering recording techniques. If he uses the best engineers ( probably import from US!), use modern equipments and have the best recording studio, he can still produce quality music. He does not have to compete with ARR in mastering the science. I think this is what IR has done in the 80's and that is the reason for his success and longetivity.

2) I was comparing the MD to that of an shop-floor manager in the context of leadership. A good leader, besides being a master in his own field(s), should be able to think in collective terms. IR is a leader of his team which comprises of people with versatile skills. A leader drives the team towards goals by making use of variety of brains(skills) of his team members. On the shop-floow, a manager (factory or supervisor) is a leader with people having skills in lathe, milling, cutting, welding and so on. He trusts upon the skills of people ( which is an unseen commodity you trade with any other goods in any field!) to produce quality items of his factory. If he loses faith in his own people, and starts doing a welding job himself, then that shows his incompetence in team building. He is not fit to be a leader.

3) Continuing on an MD becoming a specialist in acoustics, i have already mentioned about the possible impact on the quality of creativity when an MD devotes his time in modern recording techniques. These MDs donot seem to do any kind of justice to the field of MUSIC, as being mere science driven maniacs, rely completely on modernisation for their compositions. They think technology drives the art. But they do not know that it is 'creativity' which drives any field including technology. If FARADAY thought he could have spent his time in reading mordernising techniques of his laboratary, we may have been still living in the dark ages. If IR had gone to do research in science of acoustics in 80s, we may not have had his ruling ever.

Folks, this would be a never ending discussion, but since the focus has turned in to the technical aspects of musical equipments, recording etc. , i now leave the floor open to those SOUND technicians
From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-196.il.us.ibm.net) on: Tue Aug 18 22:15:23 EDT 1998

Hi Observer:
Without proper recording and sound balancing a good score would sound bad. With better recording we can improve the quality of a poor score.
During 1980's Raja has used what was top in recording industry, but he did not continue to explore as the days passed. His raasAya was advertised as 24 track recoring in Bomaby etc..etc..but we all know recording is not upto the standard.

Science driven maniacs!...observer why dont you stop using computer, Fax, CDs ...Never called a person who explores technolgy has maniacs, if so you yourself is one among them.Even Sirpi has been using mordern technology very much.

Technology drives an Art : I would say, sound technology is itself an Art.

Proper Recording of a song is a like handwriting, however well you write exams or stories or anything for that matter - if your handwriting is poor no one will want to read it.
The creator will be loser if his fails to choose his medium of communicating his creativity to the average public.
Many of Raja songs are pretty bad in thier mixes,
There are timing mistakes in his scores, I can get you many songs with timing mistake of the instrumentalist. I dont blame Raja 100% for this timing mistake but it is his reponsibilty to prevent such things.
Using proper instruments at propertime is a form of creativity. Live alone ARR's musical talent - we will not discuss it here.
All the mds in India have access to the same equipment what ARR has, why the hell they are not able to achive his qulity in recoring.
Can anyone answer this ?

Raja fans out there - this topic is not to compare Raja's scoring ability with any one -
it is about the recoring quality which Raja lacks, Why he lacks it when a new comer, some of you call him as copier (not ready to learn about his work), chinna paiyan Arr could do it properly.

Srikanth

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