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Same raga used for different situations

Topic started by swarapriyan/Murali Sankar (@ 129.252.23.231) on Fri Oct 23 23:39:22 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Hope this shall prove a feast to IR fans. IR has invariably used the same raga for conveying different situations eg:

Raga Mohanam:

(1)Vandhadhey kungumam - love
(2)Nilavu thoongum neram - lullaby
(3)Ninnukori varnam - feet tapper
(4)Idhayam oru kovil - meloncholy
(5)Paruvamey - freshness of the dawn

There may be use of anya swaras. but that must not matter to a great extent. This thread may also discuss the works of other MDs. But the appreciation shall be better if different songs in the same raga of an MD is discussed. this may help us get a good look into the versatility of MD.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Apr 9 02:41:23 EDT 2000
  
  sindiya venmani was listed as srothasvini, a rare raga, in ramaswam gireesan's site. perhaps it is related to kalyanavasantham.
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sun Apr 9 02:43:35 EDT 2000
  
  also lets take charukesi,
  raja often uses this for classical based songs or at most a family number,
  
  msv has used this at a very different situations,
  NeeYum nauma in gauravam.....
  Azagiya tamil magal EvaL...rickshaw kAran.
  
  have you heard the song Ganghai yamunai set to SRI ragam, different number.
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Apr 9 02:48:08 EDT 2000
  
  srikanth,
  actually I feel that IR has used charukesi for some different situations;):
  
  manamaalaiyum(SPB) - vaadhiyaar veetu pillai - as u said a family based situation
  
  thoodhu selvathaaradi - singaaravelan - heroine longing for her lover
  
  sandhana katti - a dance(dappanguthu) type song from the film ulle veliye. aiswarya and parthipan would be dancing in the rain for this song.
  
  azhagiya thamizh magal is an awesome number in charukesi. I agree that MSV has used ragas in a lot of innovative ways. But at the same time IR also puts up a good show;)).
  
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.221) on: Sun Apr 9 03:05:10 EDT 2000
  
  Srikanth,
  
  yes, gangai yamunai used to be played frequently once upon a time in vividh bharati.
  
  In this aspect I have a small observation(rather criticism;)) to make against ARR. if u take MSV's songs ans sometimes even IR's songs u dont realise sometimes that the song has actually been set in a particular raga. that is, these guys are very good in changing the form of the raaga or whatever the technical term is in order to make it 'light' and suitable for cinema.
  
  It might be relative, but even most of the guys who have learnt might not have realised immediately that 'raasave' was st in lathaangi or 'namma ooru singaari' was set in hindolam by MSV.
  
  Whereas if u take ARRs songs some of the recent songs it is obvious he is trying to hard to compose atleast one song on a strong carnatic basis in all his albums. u almost instantly realise that ARR has tried to something carnatic in this song. another reason for getting this feeling might be because in an otherwise pop/jazz based album a song like this alone would somehow stand out and would seem to be out of place.
  
  ennavale ennavale in kaadhalan, en veetu thotathil in gentleman, malargale in love birds..all these songs sound so obviously carnatic. also the recent 'kannamboochi' song ounds like a dikshithar krithi more than a light music song made for a film. if u see the visual for this song, Ash would be dancing and teasing Tabu. A song like this does'nt really fit the situation exactly.
  
  This does not in any way belittle ARRs genius or take away anything from his composition, but he can make it sound more like a light music-type song and also ensure that the song actually fits the scene is my opinion. comments welcome.
  
  
  
• From: srikanth (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Sun Apr 9 03:18:57 EDT 2000
  
  oflate arr has started to do music for the critics, i think he is composing in 100% classical to prove something. I still like his way, because the ragas are accurate and played by good musicians, infact in KK, he uses bhairavi wonderfully.
  
  Basically msv did have not any reference, which raja enjoyed from msv and others.
  
  (it is like me enjoying msv's,rajas and arr music
  to learn and get inspired)
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.123) on: Mon Apr 10 18:03:23 EDT 2000
  
  srikanth,
  telepathy works sometimes;)) i was wondering about gireesan's page and he promptly gives a new link to his site. http://members.xoom.com/rgireesan/
  u can take a look at some of the rare ragas that IR dealt with, though I suspect that he has not yet uploaded the full list.
  
  
• From: haris (@ inet-fw3-o.oracle.com) on: Mon Apr 10 18:57:31 EDT 2000
  
  vijay,
  
  while you say that in ARR's music , we can find the raga easily and not in IR's and MSV's, it is same with GR ( g. ramanathan.) - even GR doesnt' hide ragas anywhere. he gives a different tune in the same raga.. i.e. even in GR's music it easy to find the raga of a song.
  In my opinion, unless and until , the MDs are able to come-out with completely different tunes, it doesnt' matter whether the raga is obvious or not.
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.123) on: Mon Apr 10 19:22:18 EDT 2000
  
  Haris,
  Well, u have got my point but not exactly. Iam not sating that we can easily 'feel' the raga in all of ARRs songs. What Iam saying that u get the feeling that u are listening to a carnatic song/krithi etc. when u hear 'ennavale' in an album which also features pettai rap and other songs. i.e. I get the feeling that ARR suddenly remembers that he has to compose a song to please his critics and tries hard to compose a carnatic-based song. His songs are sometimes 'too carnatic'(I dont know exactly how to put it) that they sound out of sorts when heard in the movie or along with other songs in the same album. Rajni singing 'minsaara poove' i vasantha is something I just cannot imagine or digest. Also nithyasree does'nt bother to change her style and 'lighten' the songs when she sings it. listen to 'sowgiyamaa' and u'll understand what Iam saying.
  
  Songs like these suddenly seem out of place and make obvious the fact that ARR wants to have 1 hardcore carnatic-based song in all of his albums.
  Though most of IRs songs are raaga basd , I somehow dont get this feeling.
  Its as if ARR has decided already that he is going to compose a carnatic song and in a prticular raaga and then he goes about doing the song. its as if ARR has a predetermined urge to do a song like that. narumugaiye also sounded too carnatic. might not be appreciated by a majority of the rural mass. (whereas 'madurai marikozhundu' in maayamalavagowlai can be appreciated by anyone).
  
  MSVs songs are also like IRs in this aspect. he doesnt make the carnatic aspect of the songs too obvious*I hope iam not confusing u).
  
  
• From: haris (@ inet-fw3-o.oracle.com) on: Mon Apr 10 20:06:53 EDT 2000
  
  shall we put it like this.. with ARR as the MD, the album is made first and the situations are fit to it.. ARR has a album pattern something like a kutcheri pattern, varnam, oru keerthanai, raga alapanai + keerthanai, RTP, thillana, mangalam.. oru fast pased irukkanum, oru karnatic based irukkanum.. onnu-rendu duets.. etc.. that may be why A song like this does'nt really fit the situation exactly. Also he may think - making a song based purely on carnatic 1. will definitely become a hit. ('cos the raga is proven) 2. it has long life..
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.26.123) on: Mon Apr 10 20:15:10 EDT 2000
  
  amrithavarshini:
  
  mazhaikoru devane - typical classical number
  
  thoongaatha - fast paced duet
  
  ippodhenna thevai - tuned for a dance song. aiswarya dances for this song in thenmovie makkal aatchi.
  
  
• From: Mathan J (@ akrna010-0623.splitrock.net) on: Mon Apr 10 22:52:54 EDT 2000
  
  I feel ARR uses Carnatic now and then in a subtle manner, that it isnt SO obvious that its Carnatic. Using Dharmavathi for "Ottagathai kattiko" (such a jolly rhythm that got everybody's foot tapping), Kaapi for "En mael vizhundha " (love mood) in May maadham "Kaadhal rojavae" (desh?) which reflects the deep lover's longing, Hindolam for "Margazhi poove" a light breezy girl solo, etc.- these show that ARR can use Carnatic without stressing explicitly that he is using carnatic. There are lot more examples probably.
  "Minsara poovae" (Ramya's dance scene ), "Kannodu kaanbathellaam (Aish's bharatanatyam)" "Sowkiyamaa" "Maargazhi thingal allavaa.. (both for a classical dancer character)" "Narumugaiyae.. (classical dance old film making)" - all these songs which you feel are too typically carnatic - involve SCENEs which need a Carnatic or Bharatanatya dance number. It isnt an album making.. its movie world! I do agree Ennavalae was inserted as a semi-classical song for a modern picturization, but it became an All-India hit. People loved it.
  So I would say ARR is contributing to, using Carnatic in a non-carnatic way too.. ! And yes IR was very skilled in that. I would prefer to enjoy every music director's work in this and pick the best rather than keep comparing each one :-) Guess, u guys would agree! Ciao!
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.26.207) on: Tue Apr 11 00:30:17 EDT 2000
  
  A clarification required:
  
  "nilaa kaayum nEram saranam, ulaa pOga neeyum varaNum"
  
  In this sung there is a line "artha jaamam naan soodum aadai ingu nee yaagum". Is this a usage of maand ?
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.26.235) on: Tue Apr 11 00:46:49 EDT 2000
  
  typpo :sung = song
  
  
• From: vijay (@ 129.252.27.46) on: Tue Apr 11 15:07:04 EDT 2000
  
  Mathan J,
  even then there are some songs of IR like 'kevithai kelungal' where Ii dont think Ii get the feeling of listening to a hardcore classical. anyway, lets keep comparisons in some other thread.
  
  hamsaananadhi:
  
  vedham - salangai oli - classical number
  
  putha puthu poo - hamsaanandhi - a gentle duet not picturized unfortunately but effectively used in BGM.
  
  ooor poomalai - iniya uravu poothathu - fast paced duet caould be used for a dance sequence.
  
  
• From: Kamesh (@ hlr-81-237.tm.net.my) on: Tue Apr 11 21:02:34 EDT 2000
  
  Yesterday I was stunned after hearing 2 buetiful songs by MSV. They are Paalootti valartha kili in Gauravam and Azagan muruganidam aasai vaithen. Both seem to be in the same raaga but the application is stunning. While one conveys anger and frustration the other conveys bakthi so well.
  Can somebody tell me the raaga and probably comment on this.
  
  
• From: MS (@ 129.252.22.9) on: Sun Apr 16 21:32:14 EDT 2000
  
  Only a couple of days back I realized that Revathi - a predominantly pathos raagam, has been handled well by our MDs:
  
  (1) MSV - mandhira - duet
  (2) IR - ammaa azagE - pathos
  (3) IR - sangeetha jaathimullai - pathos
  (4) Deva - idi OsaigaL kEtkattum - inspirational
  (5) TR - vizigaL mEdaiyaam imaigaL thiraigaLaam - duet
  
  The last one seems to be the best in interpreting the raga in the lightest possible way. Just wondering why TR with such a talent settled for scoring very low number of songs ! The song was a stunner when I realized it was in rEvathi !
  
  
• From: V. Sridharan (@ ) on: Sat Jun 17 11:13:03 EDT 2000
  
  Hi Kamesh!
  
  A very good observation on how MSV has handled THILLANG raga. But his list of hanling Thillang raga is endless. To name some more,
  
  Naalaam Naalaam Thirunaalaam - from Kaathalikka neramillai
  Maanikka theril maragatha kalasam minnuvathenna - from MGRs Thedivantha Maappillai
  Mullai malargalin aaradhanai - from Thrudi
  Malligai mullai pooppanthal maragatha maanikka ponnuunjal - from Anbe Aaruire
  Naalai muthal kudikkamatten saththiyamadi thangam - from Neethi
  
  This list goes on and on. When MSV starts tuning music his creativity and imagination have no limits. They keep flowing as a river will. Nothing stops him. We have very few experts like him.
  
  

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