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Did MSV have ANY musical defects?

Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ nova1.cs.wisc.edu) on Wed Sep 30 15:21:55 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Let me make one thing clear: I am not against MSV, but am merely curious about this topic.

I have made an interesting observation. We have so many criticisms of IR and ARR, but I've not seen any criticism of MSV. I haven't listened to many MSV songs, but I wasn't very impressed by whatever I have heard on TV. Whatever it is, I cannot imagine that he did not have any musical defects. Could anyone point them out? I am very interested. It might test the "objectivity" of certain "objective" people regarding the IR-ARR "war"(I'm not hinting at anyone, please do not misunderstand this), but nevertheless, I want to pursue this.

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: The Fan (@ spider-wg061.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Oct 3 14:34:44 EDT 1998
  
  Did MSV use the mridangam or the tabla. There is a big difference you see. MSV did not have any hindi influence his songs are pure carnatic based not hindustani based. can someone second this
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-140.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sat Oct 3 15:15:02 EDT 1998
  
  
  Fan:
  Yes, he carnatic skills were Natural, there was no need for him to borrow.
  
  His hindi like sounding numbers was due the fact people began to hear more hindi especially during Rajesh Kanna times. so he must have tried to do something similar.
  
  Infact a song in Billa - NATUKULLA Enakoru oruundu" sounds more like a dilipkumar song which I dont remember. (it starts like Maine thuju...someting something.).
  It is something like trying to cook Malai Kofta with a South Indian flavor.
  
  BTW:Amarajeevatham in Krishana gaanam -is an tough song to sing, it is something very heavy.
  This was composed for Kannadasan's pre-written lyrics, Infact all the songs in the album was done like that. I called up India for its CD - I have the tape with poor quality recording, But I got reply that No CD has be produced for the album
  
  Has anyone heard the MSV instrumental album!
  Eg: Ceylon Radio - "Pongum pomponal " opening scores is from that collection.
  
  I have a MSV & Maharajapuram Santhanam live CD called sangaman - I will upload it soon.
  
  I would conclude - MSV is (was) a Natural Musician.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-140.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sat Oct 3 15:21:10 EDT 1998
  
  Leftovers:
  "Kalyellam Manika Kalaguma"
  Raja's inspiration for Enge nana kanden anarkile song in one the Sivaji' movies.
  
  MSV has scored for more number of Bharthi songs than anyone,
  
  1. theertha karai
  2. Nalthor veenai seithen
  3. chinaNchIru kileye.
  4. Sendhu nadhiin ISAI.
  can anyone comeup with a more.
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: Shashi (@ fw1xlate1.mayo.edu) on: Sat Oct 3 18:00:42 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Srikanth
  
  Firstly congrats on your 'Eravupaadagan'. Good job; well done; keep it up. I will write to you personally more about it.
  
  Thanks for details about MSV's tabla player--Prasad. Being a percussionist first and then a composer myself I was amazed by Prasad's 'sorkattu'(sol + kattu meaning combinations of rythmic usage) in a number of songs.
  
  One other song that comes to mind is Ragaangal 16... in thilumullu. Needless to talk about good tabla usage but even the melody is complex--meaning use of difficult and lengthy brighas. This is a speciality of MSV. No wonder the singers of yesteryears still respect and love him for this particular aspect--i.e., giving importance and challenging swara's to sing. The singers naturally felt more satisfaction from living up to the challenge.
  
  About Krishnagaanam--I used to have a LP of this in India.(I am not sure where it is now). But you would be better of hunting for a shop that has this LP and try to record it. One other possibility(if no shop would have it) would be to get in touch with someone in 'AIR'. You could actually checkout the LP and record from it. I have been there once when I was young and let me tell you-their collection is just phenomenal.
  
  One last thing many people have mentioned 'Unakkena mele nindrai...' as a good sindhubhairavi. No doubt about it. I would also add 'Ennai yaarendru yenni yenni nee parkirai...' as another solid, simple and sweet example of Sindhubhairavi.
  
  Hey do you think MSV's inherent quality of giving melodies with complex patterns (just the singing part) could be one of the reason for his loss of popularity? (I personally dont consider this a drawback but I guess if a composer cannot satisfy the masses it could be considered one)
  
  
• From: pg (@ client-116-1.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Oct 3 18:03:37 EDT 1998
  
  Srikanth :
  I have Krishna Gaanam on CD - EMI CDNF 147067.
  
  Recording is not bad.
  
  
• From: Mukund (@ sdwwwgw01.sd.nmp.nokia.com) on: Sat Oct 3 19:54:52 EDT 1998
  
  Hi Srikanth,
  
  CAn you tell me you web album page ?
  
  MUkund
  
  
• From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-21.il.us.ibm.net) on: Sat Oct 3 20:22:39 EDT 1998
  
  hi,
  Pg thanks for the info
  Mukund: http://jsri.fsn.net
  
  (if you are not able to reach:
  use: http://pages.prodigy.net/jsri
  
  
  Srikanth
  
  
• From: shashi (@ fw1xlate1.mayo.edu) on: Sat Oct 3 22:11:34 EDT 1998
  
  Dear Srikanth
  
  I was trying to send feedback regarding you album to the address jsri@prodigy.net
  I am unable to send it thru. If you could write to me at sksriniv@hotmail.com, I can they reply from there and attach the elaborate feedback I wrote.
  Thanks a lot
  Shashi
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Sun Oct 4 16:43:45 EDT 1998
  
  This thread has turned out to be an MSV bhajanam instead of what I intended it to be. Guys: please talk about his DEFECTS.
  
  
• From: SR Kaushik (@ elroy.cs.wisc.edu) on: Sun Oct 4 16:50:13 EDT 1998
  
  I listened to one of MSV-TKR's songs for a Satyaraj movie(late 80s - early 90s I think). It was an utterly lousy song. Maybe someone can list his dabba songs. I think one of his drawbacks from the little I have heard is heavy tabls dosages. Although his tabla player may have been great, IMO, over usage of tabls makes songs extremely monotonous. In fact, if you ask me, this was one main reason why IR became highly monotonous in the early 90s too.
  
  
• From: Raja_Fanatic (@ gatesb02-mac-13.stanford.edu) on: Sun Oct 4 20:18:47 EDT 1998
  
  By virtue of Raja's sheer expertise in all WCM concepts, all other composers are intrinsically inferior, in this particular aspect. This includes harmony and chord progressions. This is not a *defect* of other composers, but a limitation in musical exploration. I personally consider WCM as a very important area and so I give more weightage to WC knowledge. Both MSV and ARR pale in comparison to IR in this matter (IMHO)
  
  
  
• From: The Fan (@ spider-tr033.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Oct 4 23:42:25 EDT 1998
  
  I was having a chat with a Bengali friend who is out and out collecting all of Salil Chowddury's films in all languages. Interesteingly, SC is the only music director who has composed for more than 7 Indian languages. This was possible becuase he could easily adapt to the local idiom and in addition, he was the first to introduce Western classical orchestration in his music, which helped him to be very sought after music composers in many Indian states. In fact, even SDB came to him for help for background scores! MSV's major shortcoming his lack of knowledge of western orchestration. That is probably why MSV could not do beyond Tamil and Mal films.
  
  But the point is: if MSV had tried to get a western style orchestration would we have enjoyed his strongly Indian melodies? That is why I truly like MSV, who did not need western style orchestration to enhance the effectiveness of his songs. Look at Kambar Yemandhal, Malare Kurinji Malare, Kaanchi Pattuduthi. Westernised like IR does for his songs? That would have been our greatest loss. The fact that MSV did not catch up with the times is a different matter. That is what IR has done for him. ARR is lifting us all into the space age now. (We are in some vacuum now)
  
  But, bottomline MSV did not need western style orchestration at all. What he did for instance is Yenge Nimadhi and Adho Andha Paravai Polley was perfect, sufficient and just telling that Indian music is best presented in the Indian way.
  
  Thank you MSV
  
  
  
• From: G.Ragavan (@ ppp-89-7.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Thu Jan 20 08:24:16 EST 2000
  
  We can discuss the defects of a music director during his peak period. Even after Illayaraja's arrival he withstood for long period. "Chinanjchirukilliye" in neethiku thandanai is really great.
  In his peak period, I couldn't find any defects with him. Even MSV tuned those days western based songs. They are not copy. For example, "adavarellam aadavaralaam", "Thedinean vanthathu". He scored music in Kannada, Telugu and also hindi.
  
  
• From: Nanda (@ pc-sarkar-p.eng.mcmaster.ca) on: Sun Jan 23 23:17:30 EST 2000
  
  IR used a lot of piano pieces in his songs, I cant recall MSV making melodies on the piano.
  
  Another thing, maybe my cassettes are all old, but what do u guys think of bass in MSV's songs??
  
  
• From: Nanda (@ pc-sarkar-p.eng.mcmaster.ca) on: Sun Jan 23 23:19:32 EST 2000
  
  Also, I dont think MSV's chord progressions, and background chords are a challenge to anyone wanting to play his songs.
  
  
• From: MsvFan (@ wdslppp129.sttl.uswest.net) on: Mon Jan 24 10:55:56 EST 2000
  
  
  "I dont think MSV's chord progressions, and background chords are a challenge to anyone wanting to play his songs."
  you are mistaken!.... try playing his melodies, tabla nadais, also his chord progression and bass scores are not often heard, it is one of the best in the industry. It is a real challenge to play it. I can give you many interludes that are tuff to play.
  1. eg: the organ piece in engeyum epothum, satheyama vasipadhu rubma tough.
  anyday,
  MSV is way ahead than rajas and rahamans
  -- this is not only my opinion, spb told his in an sun tv interview.
  
  
• From: paamaran (@ tog-wakko1b.prognet.com) on: Mon Jan 24 15:11:13 EST 2000
  
  "MSV is way ahead than rajas and rahamans
  -- this is not only my opinion, spb told his in an sun tv interview"
  
  Aenga! Srikanth!!! ungalukke niYAmA? mathavanga thaan appudina? neengaluma? appuram intha thread engae pogumnu ungalukku NALLA theriyum!!!!
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Mon Jan 24 16:28:25 EST 2000
  
  engE pOgum? shrikAnth virumbaRa thisaila thAn pOgum. there is one more thread to bash ir! kAlamdA sAmi.
  
  :-)))
  
  
• From: g.ragavan (@ ppp-89-10.bng.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Feb 11 07:56:35 EST 2000
  
  In those days, only MSV used chords. On the road he built, IR went in car and also improved. Now is used as runway for Rahman and all others.
  
  

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