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Musical Merits &Demerits of IR and ARR [Only for fans, not fanatics!]

Topic started by V (@ 147.129.99.180) on Thu Jul 17 16:26:37 EDT 2003.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

To bring our healthy/unhealthy discussion on music merits and demeits of IRR and ARR out of the Thangar Bacchaan thread I starting this thread so that it would be more appropriate.

I expect people who post here to be fans and not typical fanatics. Expecially the young ARR fans and the "Theevira" Raja fans

Thanks!

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 170.146.91.6) on: Tue Sep 9 08:55:34 EDT 2003
  
  I was thinking... from one of the posts by
  V
  "I hate IR fans.."
  
  So i will add the Merit/Demerits of ARR/IR music..
  Merit: IR got fans
  Demerit: He started a company with the Fan symbol(Visiri-> from Visiri samiyar) (LOL..)
  Merits of ARR: there are fans who hate others (even if somebody has a opinion that has meaning in it)
  Demerit: I don't have any for ARR, since he is best by any standard, for being the pioneer in all types of music be it carnatic, rock fusion, reviving music industry, the best BGM ever scored, for bringing the most sensational music(songs) ever [SEE ROBBIE's comment] and everybody follows him.. Hail the King of Music
  
  All the pun intended.
  
  Vatsa, RS, Jag you guys are gr8
  
  
• From: rajasaranam (@ 210.214.128.115) on: Tue Sep 9 15:04:12 EDT 2003
  
  MIL,
  
  i enjoyed ur post. BTW we r chattting in a graveyard it seems. wheres this MADDY and V ?????? with Maddy the forums get interesting and iam bored without him :-(
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.245) on: Tue Sep 9 18:55:28 EDT 2003
  
  Rajasaranam
  
  
  Can you tell me an example of widespread use of tamil folk instruments in Hindi music??
  
  
  I can give u so many examples of use of Sarangi, mohana veena, tabla, shenai santoor, sitar in Tamil Music.
  
  
  Albums like Indian and Iruvar were so plenty of these instrus
  
  What you are saying is true in terms of cultural habits. We are very conservative, while northies are very carefree.
  
  
  But southies have the intelligence and understanding to appreciate hindustani music and its complexities. SO thats why ARR said that he could easily bring in hindustani elements into tamil music and people would still listen to it. However if you take carnatic or tamilish music to north they are not very receptive.
  
  
  ARR gives music to northies and when he does that he gives them what they like. He has no obligation to promote his tamil sense and all that and it is ridiculous that you guys bring in Pam Anderson, Bryan Adams for analogy.
  
  ARR is an individual not behooved by any political, cultural concerns. HE has done enough for Tamil Nadu and he has also earned the Title of "Mozart of Madras" giving pride to me as a Madras citizen!
  
  NOw Can I condemn IR for using Thiruvasakam for commercial experimentation purposes in the name of showing off his talent?? According to our religion the vedas, puranas, mantras, and any religious material should not be propogated by microphone and should not be altered or mingled with other swaras.
  
  However IR chooses to do liberally and he is an individual. We cannot question his professional decision unless it does something to embitter the existing socio-cultural equilibrium.
  
  Now come on guys... this is just too much. We are starting to question individual choices and condemning people who dont tow "our" line.
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.245) on: Tue Sep 9 18:58:41 EDT 2003
  
  MIL,
  
  
  yes I do hate IR fans (ofcourse not everyone).
  
  
  Because, overall what I see is that IR fans hate ARR more than they love IR. They get more pleasure seeing ARR fumble then bothering abt IR.
  
  
  I know IR has not come out with an album in a long time. That does not mean that IR fans can liberally go and rampage all ARR threads. It only incites furious arguments.
  
  
  Most ARR fans like/love (or atleast respect) IR. I agree there are some here who are very malicious in slandering IR. Why? even I might have done it sometimes. That has happened purely out of my objective to enrage IR fans and make them feel the same pain I feel when they heap unwanted slander on ARR.
  
  SO I hope you understand my hatred. It is not a sadistic hatred but a hatred from frustration and experience.
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.64.94) on: Tue Sep 9 19:31:10 EDT 2003
  
  V
  From what I know Thiruvasagam are praises of the lord and they were meant to be sung along with music. I think it is too premature to talk about commercialisation of this project without even listening to it. From the outset you can clearly see that it cannot be commercialised the same way as a Deva album or HJ album. The audience intended are the ones who can appreciate the beauty of the poetry and the music which goes along with it.
  
  I agree with some of you here that IR has definitely done service to the tamil culture. Films are one form of keeping our cultures alive. The way language is used in them will
  keep the interest of coming generations and let our languages live longer. If you observe many IR's songs have really good lyrical quality (any language) and there have been many instances to show that he insists on that. As lyric writer he probably understands the beauty of the language better. Only recently that it has declined, but he did do a good job when he held sway. ARR on the OTOH does not seem to really bothered about lyrics in his songs (as can be seen from the quality of his dubbed movies in telugu). These comments only stem from the over usage of English in his songs, though he is directly not responsible, he does have some say somewhere.
  
  Also I have heard that IR is trying to establish a college for music where people all over the world can exchange ideas and develop music better. Imagine the kind of recognition that TN will get through this kind of endeavour.
  All the analysis is however just IMO
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.245) on: Tue Sep 9 21:16:37 EDT 2003
  
  Vatsa,
  
  
  Yeah it is too premature to discuss the project. However I am not questioining IR's effort at all. I was just trying to prove a point that it is not right to question the professional choices of MDs.
  
  
  If an MD uses a particuar instrument, all you can say is you like it or dont like it. You cannot accuse him of not towing your line andnot doing things the way you would do it.
  
  
  Even the vedas are set to swaras and are musical. But if I say I am going to infuse some western classical elements into this to present it in a new setting I am definitely playing with it for non-devout gains.
  
  Again do not get me wrong. I cannot condemn raja for doing TIS project. All I am saying is there are so omany things questionable and it is unfair that we thrash MDs on their personal choices.
  
  
  
  ARR has done enough to get TN its pride. Films like Roja, Bombay are recognised as Tamil films that rocked the north. We should be proud of it. Or at the least shut up and talk abt something else.
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.245) on: Tue Sep 9 21:18:25 EDT 2003
  
  Yeah I am so glad that IR has planned this Intl school of music!
  
  I am very excited. Who else can handle such a noble effort handsomely other than raja. I hope the project is fruitful.
  
  Whether or not I am happy becos the school is built by tamilian in TN, I dont know. I am definitely happy for the purpose it intends to achieve!
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.233.163) on: Wed Sep 10 01:43:13 EDT 2003
  
  yup Rajasaranam i'm here to start controversies.......
  ARR
  Merit:his fans throughout the world
  demerit: all the demerits that gods have
  IR
  Merit: Music is IR and IR is music
  Demerit: his fans and his attitude.......
  
  
• From: V (@ 147.129.97.245) on: Wed Sep 10 01:53:24 EDT 2003
  
  MADDY
  
  
  IR does have some moderate fans. Not all his fans are so derogatory about every non-arr MD
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.160) on: Wed Sep 10 04:12:21 EDT 2003
  
  i know V, but they always keep ARR in thier negative side of their thinking.....u can count with fingers the no. of IR fans who appreciate ARR..... literally count them out.....they also think ARR's music is computer generated and stuff like that.... they also keep complaining that ARR has copied from here and there but nobody has proved it for a genuine copy...... whereas ARR fans pass no comment on IR.....
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Wed Sep 10 08:29:44 EDT 2003
  
  V
  it is not advise, but just a thought
  Frustration belittle a person, patience pays...
  
  (I am a victim sometimes for this.. but try to explain as much my opinions are..)
  
  Maddy
  I believe Katradhu kai man alavu kalladhadhu ulagalavu.. be it IR or ARR
  
  ARR fans outside India use A/C.. IR fans still use ceiling and table fans outside India... (LOL..)
  
  
• From: MusicIsLife (@ 67.85.193.232) on: Wed Sep 10 08:36:34 EDT 2003
  
  NOw Can I condemn IR for using Thiruvasakam for commercial experimentation purposes in the name of showing off his talent?? According to our religion the vedas, puranas, mantras, and any religious material should not be propogated by microphone and should not be altered or mingled with other swaras.
  
  V
  I disagree to this..
  It is all people's interpretation. Chinmayananda did geetha discourses and veda discourses. it was through the microphone.
  As long as the words are correct there is no sacrilege. again that is the beauty of Thiruvasagam, thiruparvai, and all Arunagirinathar songs, where by all the songs could be sung in any raaga and in any scale (this is by divinity) if you know the stories..
  
  So surely i dont agree that it is commercialization, but it could be one of IR unsatisfied dreams come true as a Musician.
  
  
• From: alleluah (@ 68.77.12.206) on: Wed Sep 10 10:08:00 EDT 2003
  
  "According to our religion the vedas, puranas, mantras, and any religious material should not be propogated by microphone and should not be altered or mingled with other swaras."
  
  The basis of notorious and timeless class system and Indians being poor communicators. India could've gone the Taliban way if not for the great British people. IMHO!
  
  
• From: Jag (@ 12.210.64.94) on: Wed Sep 10 13:03:14 EDT 2003
  
  Alleluah
  That they hadn't gone the Taliban way, 2300 years before the British came is example enough that it would not have happened. Do not post nonsense by quoting something out of context and then generalising it. It is only the Western world that prefers to be misunderstood and are now towing the Taliban way.
  
  V
  
  You seem to have basic confusion over Vedas and poems like Thiruvasagam. When Vedas were written there was no classical music system to adhere to and any musical structure they had is probably extinct. They are just knowledge bases. Puranas are just stories which sound better if sung. Only poems like Thiruvasagam have a rhythmic quality, later on modern musicians i.e. late 1500s and 1800s have infused music into them to make them popular. This is exactly what Raaja is trying to do.
  
  
  
• From: MADDY (@ 203.94.218.196) on: Wed Sep 10 13:04:55 EDT 2003
  
  then y do protestants and catholics fite in christianity my dear alleluah if they are so sophisticated and had gr8 communication????? u r able to type such a statement against a majority religion.......in which country will u get such freedom?????? anyway y did u bring religion into this??/ u guys wait for smallest aoppurtunity to attack on hindus?????
  
  

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