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TFM Composers - That Dared and Surprised TFM

Topic started by newtopicworthit? (@ 65.57.13.101) on Tue Jan 8 00:28:25 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

ARR- Thiruda Thiruda (Raasathi, Chandraleka, Puthum Pudu Bhoomi), Minsara Kanavu (Oo la la, Strawberry Kanne)
HJ - Minnale
KR - Grahan in Hindi!
YSR - Dheena
IR - Annakkilli - (orchestration and folk tunes), Sindu Bhairavi, Ullasa Paravaihal, Ennakkul Oruvan, Moodu Pani etc.. Can we find out more about IR's pathbreaking numbers?
MSV - Many, eg.. Oru Raja Raani Idam

Worth talking about?

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Tue Jan 8 15:18:18 EST 2002
  
  "One surprise (I would call extremely different from what was hitherto TFM) is nenjathai kiLLAdhE. It was much ahead of it's time...uRavenum pudhiya vAnil had the kind of `ambience' much similar to the innovations that ARR is credited with nowadays... "
  Fantastic ..fantastic observation eden. I listen to random IR songs while doing some mundane stuff at work (like while downloading, compiling etc). Today, I listened to puththam pudhu kAlai from alaigal oyvathillai..Wow wow..what ambience.
  There are quite a good number of songs like this by IR, this is just one of the kinds of songs which IR does (but not easily recognised like the simple dappAnguththu songs).
  
  I am sure many current songs of IR which we ignore now will be done by another MD in the future and will be accepted as 'cool', I am afraid !!!
  
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Tue Jan 8 17:11:50 EST 2002
  
  the real trendsetter: :-)) g.rAmanAthan: almost all of his movies :-). yArAdi nI mOgini is just oru chORu. if i could bring back to life one dead person that would be him. he was the first to bring the richness of carnatic music to the masses. sadhAram, thUkkuth thUkki, (who did the music for thillAnA mOganAmbAL?). anyways, he was THE genius.
  
  MSV: one of his greatest (he has many greatESTs :-) ) contributions is kaRNan. wow! MSV and KMV diluted what GR started but even then, they were greats. all one can say thinking about them is: andha nALum vandhidAdhO.
  
  vkumar did a surprising thing in one sAmbAr (gemini ganEsan :-) ) movie. he gave l.r. eshwari a "melodic" song and p.sushIlA a "sexy" song. anyone remember the details? that went unnoticed but was brave thing indeed.
  
  
• From: Pal (@ 68.38.194.113) on: Tue Jan 8 18:24:16 EST 2002
  
  hihi:-)
  
  thillAnA mOganAmbAL - KVM
  
  The vkumar film is veLLi vizhA.
  Songs- 'kaadhOdu thaan naan paesuvaen' - LRE
  naan satham pOttuthaan paaduvEn' - PS.
  Direction: KBalachandar
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Tue Jan 8 18:28:06 EST 2002
  
  pal: yes. thanks a lot pal. (you are still around!) kAdhOdu thAn nAn pEsuvEn. beautiful song (eventho the pallavi was copied from hindi - do you remember the original - lata song?)
  
  
• From: Mr. Observer (@ 64.105.35.163) on: Tue Jan 8 19:31:05 EST 2002
  
  aruL, the original song is 'jeena yahAn marna yahAn' , a typical Raj Kapoor-ish tune from mErA nAm joker, sung by Mukesh.
  
  GR had a major disadvantage those days, of having to score music only for mythologicals/historical movies. Inspite of these limitations, he managed to bring a 'neo' feel to some duets, like 'kaNgaLAl kAthal kAviyam' (sArangathArA) (TMS-Jikki) set to waltz but retaining the Carnatic touch, bearing in mind the story setting. Another similar number, 'ulavum thendral kAtrinilE' (T.Loganathan and ????) in Manthirikumari with shades of Maand, an awesome number. These were great innovations in the late 40s/early 50s era and audacious too, given the type of movies.
  
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.65) on: Tue Jan 8 23:47:32 EST 2002
  
  `kAdhOdu dhAn' MSV illayA? I think I'd seen a disc containing instrumental versions of MSV film songs (instrumental also by MSV) where this song along with `viLakkEtRi vaikkiREn' of soodhAttam is included... sure it's VK?....
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Wed Jan 9 03:02:49 EST 2002
  
  >>Today, I listened to puththam pudhu kAlai from alaigal oyvathillai..Wow wow..what ambience.
  I am sure many current songs of IR which we ignore now will be done by another MD in the future and will be accepted as 'cool', I am afraid !!! <<<
  
  Kiru..Putham Pudhu kalai still rings in my head even though i'd heard it maybe 10 years or more ago. It definitely is an all time classic and will be cherished.
  And definitely IR could have kept his trend-setting pace by incorporating technology as early as 1985. One reason why he may not have is the market. What directors would have been after were the same kind of hit folk songs...this may have limited his experimentation range also keeping in mind that he was doing a lot of films every year and wouldn't have had the time to think of new avenues.
  I think Ramarajan or whoever allowed him once to experiment in a village film...the song "Nethu oruthara oruthara.." - this too is a very modern song much like today's loop based compositions.
  ARR is a result of the urbanization phenomenon...YSR, KR and HJ also fall into this bracket. Whether healthy or not, the same would have been said about the IR phenomenon in the late 70s. It is said that MSV was not at all happy with the advent of IR's music. But later reconciled.
  So I feel that we shouldn't discount anything NEW...or even OLD..for that matter !
  
  
• From: eden (@ 61.1.250.241) on: Wed Jan 9 03:56:35 EST 2002
  
  And definitely IR could have kept his trend-setting pace by incorporating technology as early as 1985. One reason why he may not have is the market
  
  Cosmician, I beg to differ...despite the limitations of TF industry, Raja kept setting trends...don't you recognize agni, anjali,idhayathai, dhalapathi as `daring' (with probable encouragement from MR)? And what about punnagai mannan & a couple more he did with KB? It was sheer personality issues that prompted both KB&MR (& probably a host of other top names later) to go away from IR...not any lack of innovation, I think...Well, with due regards to ARR's talent, it is a fact that he was fortunate to work with the kind of teams that encourage `daring' attempts, MR & KB to name a couple...
  
  
• From: Kupps (@ 156.153.255.126) on: Wed Jan 9 11:25:01 EST 2002
  
  wonderful points eden. could not agree any more.
  
  a start with folk --> AnnakkiLi
  
  switching back to old, rather already existing, trend(Carnatic classical) --> KaviKuyil etc.
  
  urbanized music --> sigappu rojakkaL ( a test for both IR and BR, both passed :-) )
  
  Hell a lot of Variations through kozhikoovudhu, nenjaththai kiLLadhae, raajapaarvai, johny, priya(stereo recording), alaigaL oivadhillai, panneer pushpangaL, mounaraagam, sindhu bhairavi, punnagai mannan, agni nakshatram, anjali, dhalapathi, guna...hooof fingers paining.
  
  About G.R, we can simply say him as the "Pithaamahar" of TFM MDs. Undisputedly a revered persons to even greats from KVM, MSV, IR. Grand orchestrations during those times, unimaginable with such limited resources. A pure trend setter, i guess was promoter of TMS voice and other such new voices. varied range from Baagavathar songs to sivaji and all.
  
  IMO GR, KVM, MSVs, IR and oflate ARR are important milestones of TFM journey.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.132) on: Wed Jan 9 14:25:39 EST 2002
  
  Eden...
  
  You are right there...what I should've added was the market (or maybe his likes) didn't permit him to go beyond experimentation and innovation in Carnatic, Western Classical and Tamil Folk alongwith Classic Rock....the audiences of the 80s were happy with that..(even ARR has said that "IR is a self-contained MD"...he has constructed a whole new world with Tamil Folk and Western Classical...)
  And yes Agni Natchatiram was definitely trend-setting - the electronic drums in the "Raja Rajathi song" inspired me to become a composer (unsuccessfully;)...but even in Agni Natchathiram...Raja stuck to Classic Rock...80s contemporary pop touches were missing ...ARR is filling in those gaps...even then, ARR may be 10 years too late....the next wave maybe from younger MDs who have caught up with the front ranks of World music.
  
  P.S. 1 reason why IR may have avoided 80s pop was maybe bcos he had perceived it as not an art form.
  
  I say this becasuse if u notice you will find 80s pop style compositions of IR in many night-club type situations...for eg.
  
  1. Captain Prabhakaran - ?dont remember the name of the song
  2. Kaliyugam - Stella?
  3. Vetri Vizha - Thattom
  
  These were very good pop compositions but couldn't be played loudly at home bcos of their lyrical connotations.
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.1.132) on: Wed Jan 9 14:31:41 EST 2002
  
  And I always maintain that "Thalapathi" was a forecast of the shape of music to come in Indian film music....you will find the composition structure of the Thalapathi songs similar to what ARR started off in Roja...
  
  Just pure speculation and not to be taken seriously :
  
  (This sometimes makes me wonder whether MR pressurised IR into listening to ARR's demo tape and asked for something similar or was it the other way round ?
  
  Bcos "Roja" is definitely the next step in evolution from "Thalapathi"
  
  
• From: hihi:-) (@ 128.111.113.76) on: Wed Jan 9 15:29:45 EST 2002
  
  Mr. Observer: yes. jInA yehAn. thanks. people like GR, MSV, KVM, IR, VK, ... had one major disadvantage - no track recording. can you imagine recording egkE nimmathi now-a-days? going still further back - how about kaNgaL iraNDum enRu ummaik kaNdu pEsumO? what a song! i dont know how they recorded these songs but recording the song in one sitting - thinking about it gives me goosebumps.
  
  eden: kAdhOduthAn MSV illai :-(
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 64.172.25.23) on: Wed Jan 9 20:14:54 EST 2002
  
  cosmician..you have to go back really to the past to hear the 'latest trend' songs from IR :) ..listen to meen kodi thEril in karumbu viL at www.dhool.com. Ultimate rhythm number with bass flutes, veenai, pipes nadhaswaram (played like a band of bagpipes) etc etc..
  Anyways, hihi has brought up a good point ..how GR brought classical music to the masses. This IS the history of TFM/IFM - taking classical music (carnatic or wcm) to the masses in a popular form. Upto IR this is what our MDs were doing. We need to understand the genesis of TFM/IFM as a genre from this point of view.
  
  "And definitely IR could have kept his trend-setting pace by incorporating technology as early as 1985"
  
  Every composer has a style/interest one cannot..even the paying audience cannot dictate the direction..this is art ..it is personal experssion ..BTW..the same movie as another song 'malargalilE ArAdhanai' ..which one do you think IR enjoyed composing ?? I have my own suspicions.
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.179) on: Wed Jan 9 23:55:29 EST 2002
  
  cosmician, kiru:
  I think the idea of IR not sticking to the `popular pop' sounds and structure of 80's could be that he wanted to have his `own identity'! His song should be known as his own and not similar to, say, George Michael, Phil collins, Stevie Wonder or Madonna...In fact, he would never have wanted himself to sound similar to BoneyM or Abba even...Following same structure (assuming such instruments & recording equipment could be hired / employed) would have made him `sounding like' any of these and make him lose his identity...Though it's a bit too much, I'm trying to imagine `Raja's thinking':-)
  
  
• From: eden (@ 210.214.4.179) on: Thu Jan 10 00:10:46 EST 2002
  
  Coming back to the topic, I think `kOzhi koovuthu' & `Anandhakkummi' (both home productions of Raja family, apart from alaigal Oyvathillai which is already listed) were daring attempts with innovative sounds & structures...
  
  Compared to these, Rajathi Raja (another home production with big names like Rajini, R Sunderrajan), is a relatively non-innovative score (en kittE mOdhAdhE, meenammA, On nenja thottu sollu, malayALakkaraiyOram etc...average numbers)
  
  

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