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COPYING - IN TAMIL FILM HISTORY

Topic started by s.senthilkumar (@ 203.197.154.163) on Mon Jan 24 07:23:36 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

i think "copying" is there for a long time in tamil film history.Here we discuss the tamil songs copied from others.

For a compilation of copied/inspired songs: http://copied.newtfmpage.com

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Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Tue Jun 11 02:31:26 EDT 2002
  
  Another WHAM - Rahman connection? Listen to Pavitra's 'sevvanam...' and WHAM's 'Wake me up'. Inspired? Coincidence?
  
  Listen to them at www.iespana.es/i2fs/
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Tue Jun 11 11:29:21 EDT 2002
  
  Karthik S.
  
  I am not able to listen to that from your site.
  
  It says unnable to locate server. Server does not have have DNS entry.
  
  Okay..what's your conclusion.
  
  
• From: ARR Variations! (@ 205.188.199.157) on: Tue Jun 11 19:15:08 EDT 2002
  
  It is amazing! No wonder, i used to wonder that sevvanam song sounded so familiar, though wonderful. And, it is that Wake Me up Before.... Rahman Saar has no limits! Twinkle Twinkle Littl e Star How I wonder what u ARR!!!!
  
  Madrasey Suthi Pakka Ponen is also so close to the original. I had not heard this GM song before, i must tell you the original is a surprise.
  
  Karthik, great work!
  
  This explains how ARR is not prolific. If one has to spend time to find suitable hit songs and then modify them to local audience tastes, that takes a lot of a composer' time, even if his computer does most of the work.
  
  But, hopefully most of the other ARR hits are not inspirations.
  
  
• From: mohan (@ 202.9.167.57) on: Tue Jun 11 20:39:48 EDT 2002
  
  sorry karthik,
  
  i didnt find any similarity in both these cases.
  whatever similarity thats there is only very little to be labelled even as coincidence.
  
  
• From: dusee (@ 24.42.184.8) on: Tue Jun 11 21:09:54 EDT 2002
  
  sing hira hira hirabba in twingle twingle little star tune.... cool
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Jun 12 01:39:12 EDT 2002
  
  Common Friend:
  
  My take is that both are mere coincidences. In the May Maadham song, the words 'madarasa suthi pakka poren' sound a vaguely similar to the WHAM song. Rest fo the song is radically different!
  
  In the Pavitra song the similarity is even more vague. Just added them to know what others feel. I've made up my mind to add them under coincidences list long back.
  
  
• From: Just time pass only - no accusations please no malice (@ 205.188.196.28) on: Wed Jun 12 02:08:43 EDT 2002
  
  Found one song - ARR inspired from IR. see, ARR seems to need a starting point and from there he goes on his own direction, charanams usually are not that exciting as compared to the inspired ones. i thought the wham songs were more than coincidental. i once was edited midi files on the computer by just removing one or two notes from the notation here and there and you can get exciting results!! u will know why i am kind a skeptical about ARR's inspirations.
  
  anyway, to the IR song- Enna Moham Kannamma from Manidha Manidha (1995 ARR) seems to 'shadow" Enadhu Vizhi of Solla Thudikuthu Manasu (1988 IR) including the chirp in chorus. i find a lot of overlap.
  
  another one it may not be really noticeable, but i see a similarity. the new Shakalaka Baby on bombaydreams, the second stanza is not very original - it has got two sources of inspiration, u will laugh at this, but just take a look at it. first inspiration is a genesis song from invisible touch, second an IR charanam for a song in Enga Ooru Paattukaran.
  
  But, that is ARR's proprietary skill.
  
  
  
• From: cosmician (@ 194.170.127.161) on: Wed Jun 12 02:15:28 EDT 2002
  
  Which word is more apt in the cases you have mentioned Karthik ? "Inspire" or "Influence" ?
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Wed Jun 12 03:05:05 EDT 2002
  
  Cosmician:
  
  Neither! I'd call it coincidence.
  
  Just time pass only - no accusations please no malice:
  
  If we take this from here, I'm sure you can find at least 2 words sounding similar to a song in the past regardless of who the composer is. Yes ARR is bound to have shades of IR or any other older composers in him, for the simple reason that he has grown up with that music.
  
  Its ridiculous to say that ARR heard the WHAM song and decided to use the tune of the first 2 words of Club Tropicana (for instance) and decided to change the rest. There's hardly any point in doing that. We can only ASSUME he did that but I think any composer deserves the benefit of doubt over instances like 2 words sounding similar.
  
  Where one can safely conclude that the song is indeed inspired is when the similarity spans more than mere 2 words...in terms of chord movement/ progression/change...
  
  Just to illustrate, check out today's update in my site...about one of Pardes's numbers. No doubt its a fab composition but one can make out beyond doubt that its in part inspired by the Kitaro number mentioned there, since the inspiration finds itself evident in 2 different places in the Hindi song. If it was merely the middle portion of the song which sounds similar I'd surely have added it under coincidences.
  
  Another example. The song from 'Kuch Khatti Kuch Meeti'...which goes, 'Tumko sirf tumko'. It reminded me of the Beatles classic, 'Norwegian Wood'! While I was checking it with a few friends of mine who were more knowledgeable in music one of them says this...
  
  "...different metre...the distinctive chord change (if in the key of D, it would be the shift to C and through a passing G back to D) is a
  dead giveaway..."
  
  So you can explain almost exactly where one thinks the inspiration has occured but sure not for just 2 words which seemingly sound similar!
  
  Karthik
  www.iespana.es/i2fs/
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Wed Jun 12 07:43:55 EDT 2002
  
  Thanks karthik
  
  But, can you tell me why I am getting such error. I used to get it earlier, but after some time I did not get it. That IR's ennadi meenakshi song and all were easyly playable. IS the problem in your side or my end has a problem.
  
  The point is, I cannot ask my people here to correct this for tfm sake only.
  
  
• From: adipada pOren (@ 209.130.217.102) on: Wed Jun 12 09:27:32 EDT 2002
  
  Karthik,
  Chord structure of Ilamai ennaum ponkAtru...
  is something is very close to the famous hotel california by Eagles. However hotel california has many versions, I dont know which one I heard.
  But I am some what sure IR got inspired from this number. (to save my ...: It just my opinion, it is only an opinion)
  
  
• From: kiru (@ 192.138.150.249) on: Wed Jun 12 13:15:13 EDT 2002
  
  IMHO, what is the point in listing those two songs (about ARR) as 'coincidences' ? I dont see any. My guess regarding how this could have happened is - ARR does listen to popular music from the west. (Actually, no other MD in India must have listened this much to soft rock/POP hits) I am pretty sure he knows all the WHAM songs. Considering, that he was into jingle-making, he has a keen ear for what makes a catchy start. I am sure song starts like this would have stuck in his mind. When he is composing, this comes out naturally, (unconscious influence, if I may say so). But the whole thing has been internalised in his mind and is produced in a different structure. So this cannot be considered as influence/inspiration. It would be totally unfair to him.
  
  
• From: Swamiji (@ 198.102.112.18) on: Thu Jun 13 01:10:21 EDT 2002
  
  adipada pOren, hotel cali and ilamai arent similar (even chord-wise)
  
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Thu Jun 13 07:41:54 EDT 2002
  
  I agree, I dont see any chord-level similarity either, leave alone in the tune!
  
  But yes, I've read about such an allegation somewhere on the web ealier too!
  
  
• From: Common Friend (@ 203.197.141.186) on: Thu Jun 13 07:50:08 EDT 2002
  
  kiru:
  
  Why this newtfmpage is still a place for healthy discussions, inspite of some half baked fanatics from both sides, is because of people like you.
  
  Good.
  
  
• From: :) (@ 151.201.26.85) on: Thu Jun 13 08:04:17 EDT 2002
  
  swamiji, why dont you show the same enthu when someone takes arr for ride on chords etc :)
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.196) on: Thu Jun 13 10:58:34 EDT 2002
  
  Karthik S,
  
  I would like to draw ur attention to this interesting piece of info..
  
  "meri jaan meri jaan" song from panchathantiram
  
  does anyone remember the advt for the egg i refer to below.
  
  the original Hindi song is here, listen to it
  
  http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/l/XX01000I4I
  
  
  The song became more popular because it was used in the advt for "Eggs". yes the Indian Govt sponsored Advts for Eggs and Milk in the late 80's and early 90's.
  
  In the Advt a fat guy with a hat (the oone made of woodish material and not cloth) drives in a cycle and sings
  
  "meri jaan meri jaan murgi ke ande". I think this song is a spoof of that advt and the words "meri jaan" are being used deliberately. I know deva copies a lot.. But we will know when we see the movie that this is deliberate... spoof of the advt.
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 203.197.190.100) on: Thu Jun 13 12:59:42 EDT 2002
  
  Bharath:
  
  Yeah I noticed that while watching a promo for Panchathantiram. I frankly didnt know that the egg advt's tune was originally a old Hindi song...now that you've told me I know!
  
  But going by Deva's past track record I dont think we should be surprised. As far as I saw, dunno how much you can trust a promo, I dont think there's any reference to eggs in that meri jaan song in Panchathantiram!
  
  
• From: suseendran devarajah (@ 24.42.184.8) on: Thu Jun 13 16:28:15 EDT 2002
  
  ANOTHER ONE BY DEVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A DIRECT LIFT
  'Tendu Kallu Parvaialli' from Thamil Chelvan is copied form 'Here We Are' by Gloria Estafan
  
  Original:- http://www.geocities.com/dusee80/here.rm
  
  
  Clone:- http://tamilgallery.com/RealMedia/ThamizhChelvan_4.rm
  
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 156.153.255.195) on: Thu Jun 13 16:58:09 EDT 2002
  
  Karthik,
  
  i didnt kow there was a hindi orig until vijay in another thread pointed me to it. I was surprised.
  
  -bharath
  
  
• From: Karthik S (@ 164.164.82.29) on: Fri Jun 14 04:50:25 EDT 2002
  
  Suseendran:
  
  The openings (prelude) is lifted as-is no doubt but the tune sounds different, right? Am I missing something?
  
  
• From: Bharath (@ 66.140.44.43) on: Fri Jun 14 08:22:38 EDT 2002
  
  Hi Karthik,
  
  these 2 songs which are listed as inspiration pairs. I have some comments about them
  
  Zindagi imtihaan leti hai | See the stars
  
  1) The BoneyM masterpiece which is listed as "see the stars"..well the songs actual name is "still I am sad".
  
  2) Its also not a Boneym original. They remixed from an oldie.
  
  3) However this song is THE BEST song I have EVER heard in western music. There is no song better than this IMO. Any person would be captivated by this song.
  
  4) The hindi song is not an inspiration/copy it does sound vaguely similar but its not
  
  5) There is one song in amaravathi (ajith's first movie also sangavi's). The carbon xerox copy of still i am sad is in that movie. the MD is agathiyan??? (MD for Amaran & Sevalperipandi???)
  
  
  

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