Raja's theoritical Approach:

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Raja's theoritical Approach: Raja's theoritical Approach:

Topic started by D.Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-226.il.us.ibm.net) on Sun Oct 4 11:31:55 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Raja's theoritical Approach

Yesterday I was in a telephonic discussion with Shashi - (also a DF'er) about Raja's decline in the market.

Essence of our discussion:

We all know Raja writes his score without touching any instrument. This has paved a way for Raja to become very alogorithamic. He is forced into this as he is not hearing it, meaning his scores are very theoritical. A good western classical musician will predict Raja's score after hearing few bars.
He has to change this type of composing, he has to compose something new using his HEART instead of his BRAIN . We were able to calculate the bar lengths of the counter points and BGM that he would place, everything Proved to be very very theoritical approach.
Though theoritically scores are complicated, over a period of time it starts sounding the same for a musical illitrate (masses)

Many of his greatest fans are here this DF (including me), as a responsible fan we can find more about this and convey the message to him somehow.

Statutory Warning: This topic is not to hurt Raja's ablity, there is no doubt in his ablity .I know the fact writing theoritical music is not easy. Theoritically anything is complicated.

D.Srikanth

Responses:

Old responses
From: Srinath (@ gate5.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Oct 5 12:08:51 EDT 1998

Srikanth:
Since IR is a spent force, why don't you direct your energies towards correcting ARR ? Or do you think he is perfect ?

Hey ! Thanks for deciding who music is for and who it isn't for. Where are the rule books that say so and so should listen to music while so and so should not ?

Tell me honestly Srikanth, did you expect everybody to agree with you when you started this topic ? Surely, you must have been prepared for the mud-slinging - because you started it !

Oru 3 vayasu kuzhandhai kittendhu lollypoppai pidunguvadhu pol asingam edhavadhu unda ? You are being so petty in your opinion and you accuse me of pettiness ?

To be very honest guys, I was in an extremely irritated mood (totally unrelated to TFM ;-)) even before I read Srikanth's topic. That's why you saw the worst of me. But what spoiled your mood Srikanth ? I even tried to explain my irritation in my posting. But you go about questioning others' competence - with what scale ? Anyway you are a person who doubts IR himself, why would you have to give me any credence ;-) ?

Anway, take it easy Srikanth ! I don't mean to insult you personally. It was just an outburst. But I am not going to apologise for it because it was provoked by your posting. I can accept our differences and live with them. Similarly, I request you to accept our differences and avoid turning this into personal animosity :-)
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Mon Oct 5 12:30:28 EDT 1998

srikanth,
i actually wanted to know exactly what is predictable in raja's music. for me guru or yaathramozhi or KM sounds so different from johny or priya. so how do u say raja's songs would start sounding siiliar. in what sense?
i feel that perhaps persons having technical knowledge, like u for instance might find some similiarities with respect to bar lengths, use of musical instruments etc.
but for a common man , it is hard to believe that raja's songs would sound the same.
raja has kept in tune with the times and his interlude music nowadays sems so different from his music of yesteryears where he predominantly used violins or table etc.

as an example of his experiments u can take 'meetadha oru veenai' song which has a sort of a diffficult beat. ( a 5 thaala pattern?)

guys , in a lighter vein just to cool things off here, listen to the song 'april maathathile' from the film vaali. the second interlude has a flute piece which our deva has eeadichaan copified from murray head's song 'one night in bangkok'.
:-))
From: vijay (@ 129.252.22.246) on: Mon Oct 5 12:31:59 EDT 1998

srikanth,
i actually wanted to know exactly what is predictable in raja's music. for me guru or yaathramozhi or KM sounds so different from johny or priya. so how do u say raja's songs would start sounding siiliar. in what sense?
i feel that perhaps persons having technical knowledge, like u for instance might find some similiarities with respect to bar lengths, use of musical instruments etc.
but for a common man , it is hard to believe that raja's songs would sound the same.
raja has kept in tune with the times and his interlude music nowadays sems so different from his music of yesteryears where he predominantly used violins or table etc.

as an example of his experiments u can take 'meetadha oru veenai' song which has a sort of a diffficult beat. ( a 5 thaala pattern?)

guys , in a lighter vein just to cool things off here, listen to the song 'april maathathile' from the film vaali. the second interlude has a flute piece which our deva has eeadichaan copified from murray head's song 'one night in bangkok'.
:-))
From: Still a Hard Core IR Fan ;-) (Srinath) (@ gate6.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Mon Oct 5 12:41:17 EDT 1998

Srikanth:
Could it be that your ability to predict IR's music is because the style is so much ingrained in you that you can only think in those terms ? That is one reason why I appreciate ARR. Every MD in TFM, excluding ARR to a large extent, will find some influence of IR (and definitely some of MSV) in his music. Is that because IR is predictable or is it because that is the only way that they can think of composing music ? I am not saying that this is a short-coming in your abilities - I am only implying that you are able to predict IR's music because you know his style and are greatly influenced by it. If at all anybody has to try anything original in TFM, the only way they can do it is by doing something 'different' from IR. They have to take up something and say, "OK, this ia what IR would do, so I am going to do something else". You see, IR is the ultimate reference point in TFM. That is probably what ARR was doing in the initial days of his career. Of course, now ARR has his own style and all he has to do is compose like ARR, instead of trying 'not to compose' like IR. So IMHO, IR does not have an algorithm, rather it is us who cannot think above and beyond IR's music and hence feel that IR scores within a restricted pattern.

Srikanth, I had to make a choice between a career in software and a career in music. My career in music stopped just as I got an opportunity to play for A.V.Ramanan (husband of Uma Ramanan, runs a popular LMT called 'Musiano' in Madras) because I got my first s/w job at the same time that A.V.Ramanan was looking for a full-time bass guitarist. Only *I* know how many people I had to turn down before I stopped getting any calls for playing Light Music shows. You are fortunate that you had the opportunity, time and inclination to achieve all that you have - I salute that. I don't have to give you all this explanation, but I know that this is only a misunderstanding. You are not my 'janma-virodhi' or something ;-))) What do you say ?
From: kitty (@ giasmda.vsnl.net.in) on: Mon Oct 5 12:54:28 EDT 1998

Srikanth : THANKS !.. for deciding that music is not for Srinath and Kaushik... how can you do that ? Just because they were being IR fans ? Being and IR Fan/fanatic... does'nt neccessarily mean that that person is not very musically inclined. I have traced down to almost every note in all his good songs.
What I'm getting at is this : I don't think you can take upon yourself the role of a critic. and go so far to say that his music is algorithmic, and that it comes from his brain and not heart. You sound like as if you worked with him. you are just going by some standard lines like "He does'nt have to touch an instrument". That only goes to say that he can visualize music. How can you draw a line between the Brain and the Heart.. you really sound like an expert Psychologist. I don't think you or me or anyone here has the right to talk about things like IR has to change his style..Why the hell should he ? Does'nt he deserve the freedom ? You are not the onlyone who has analysed his bars, many of us have done that... and even after I have cracked the most creative chord pattern he has composed, my respect only increases for him. You always keep talking about points, counterpoints.. and all this classical jargon. I listen to WC a bit, but I don't know the Jargon..... but I do know the 7-8 chords in the
2nd interlude of Ilaiyanila. Thats not an algorithm. Its not even just a chord progression.. but the combination of this with a melody line to. So you can have 2 algorithms for both and multiply them.. to get infinite choices. Do you think he went thru all this in his brain and chose one. Ok.. maybe thats an old example.... and for a new one how about "Meetatha Oru Veenai" from Poonthotam.... and if that song is not from the heart.... I can't say anything.
And please don't call IR a supercomputer.. or anything, he is just a very creative person. That he is fast, theoretical, systematic etc.. are only other attributes.
From: Srinivas (@ scproxy3.sc.intel.com) on: Mon Oct 5 14:14:18 EDT 1998

All the talk about IR being theoretical or "IR losing his novelty" is itself subjective at best and superfluous at worst. Maybe people with great musical knowledge find IR's music predictable, but as a layman , I still find myself being fascinated by Raja's music, even in his latest ventures.
I think people are trying to rationalize for Raja's decline in TFM. His music for Kannada and Mallu films still continues to be experimental and exploratory- e.g,s interludes of "Varan Vrindavanam" in KaliyonjAlu, "Jailali Hutti" in "Shiva sainyam", a calssic folk song in "Prema Raaga Hedu gelathi" a "Omkaradee " from Nammoora MandAra Hoove.
If u think that "unworldly" sounding pieces are what it takes to be experimental. Raja has given his share of them. As kaushik points out, the Veens piece in "Gopemma Chethulo" (Telugu) and the interludes of "Manchu kurise veelalo" in ABHINANDANA are enough exotic sounding to be comparable to any exotic sounds from ANY composer.
Lastly, I consider that all this "heart-brain" stuff is purely marketing jargon with the sole aim of generating hype/ publicity. For instance, VandE MAtaram was hyped up in the media as "straight from the heart" etc etc. Is it my mistake that these songs failed to impress me (heart/mind) :-)).
My point is that these notions are highly subjective and they cannot be made grounds for criticism.

Srinivas
From: Srikanth (@ proxy1.dpn.deere.com) on: Mon Oct 5 14:30:00 EDT 1998

Hi,
You guys are taking just one song as a sample,
"Meetha veenai "
others songs in the moive is same old stuff.

Meetatha veenai - bar counts and lengths are just the same of "MahaRajanodu", try to calculate the interlude placements - both the songs are similar. - No doubt it a great song, but my small musical & critical brains tells me the above things what to do?

Guys:I am not bring down the quality of the song he gives - you guys think me as a IR hater or something and oppose what ever I utter.

Let Raja go anyway he wants - U guys follow and keep telling the same thing - I CARE A DAM FOr IT FRoM NOW ON
I feel very sad that I put something I thought will has some sense and bring Raja back to form.

I am sure if Raja reads this he will think about it.

No more postings or anything from me, I know I will be loser without the disucssion with you guys, but always it ends in a fight.
and it becomes personal.

Srikanth

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